Starter test

Jeffreyi

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
107
If I take the starter out of the engine (1989 85hp Force) and use jumper cables to test it, it spins. When I return it to the engine and try the same thing I just get sparks.

When I try to start it through the (new) ignition switch I do hear a click (solenoid?) and the choke also clicks AND the starter clicks. There is a new battery.

Of note, while tinkering around with some of the ignition wires a week or so ago, smoke came up from the starter.

What's up? Is my starter really OK? Why won't it turn while in the engine? Etc, etc.

Thanks.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Starter test

Go to Engine FAQs, "Outboard won't start", Jeff.

There is a step to test the starter in there.

From what you have told us so far I think you have a bad connection in the starter high current circuit. Battery cables where they connect to the battery, where they connect to the engine block and starter, or in the cables themselves.

Tests for those connections are also included.

I would remove those cables, inspect them for internal corrosion, thoroughly clean the connections and reconnect them.

That smoke is also a symptom of a low resistance connection in that circuit.

Good luck. :)
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Starter test

Did the smoke come from near or around the starter or did it come from within the starter? If it came from within, the windings on the armature are fried.
When you tested the motor out of the engine did it just spin or did it try to jump and twist out of your hand? A good starter will have a very large torque reaction and is fairly hard to hold when tested this way. If it starts to spin with very little reaction, it is probably bad.
There are no ignition wires associated with the starter motor. There are only the two neutral interlock wires going to the solenoid. The starter only has a hot terminal on the side and is grounded through the block. Check to be sure that the ground wire from the battery has a good connection to the block. Check that the top plate of the starter is clean as well as the mount it goes into. Also be sure that the lower bracket is clean and tight.
It has been my experience that it is very difficult to get a good enough connection to deliver enough amps to start an engine by using jumper cables to the hot terminal on the starter.
 

Jeffreyi

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
107
Re: Starter test

Thanks Frank and JB.

The smoke came from inside the starter. When I tested out of the engine I had it on the ground with my foot on it...it didn't seem to jump. This starter has a two rods on top which fasten to a bracket. One of those is connected to the solenoid by a black wire, the other connection is a thick red cable which is attached to bolt near the incoming battery cable.So Frank, even though the windings are fried, it will still spin?

I will check all that has been suggested. One more question though. I almost always work on this engine by myself. How can I hot wire the ignition so the started would be engaged as suggested in FAQs, "Outboard won't start" instructions?

Thanks again!
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Starter test

Ok, a little education here. The inside of your starter has two large permanent magnets on the shell. The armature has very heavy low resistance wire wound in several circuits. When connected through the solenoid, very high current (amps) flows through and makes a strong magnetic field that reacts against the permanent magnets, spinning the armature with great force and generating a lot of heat. That's why you don't run the starter continuously. The commutator (the copper segmented piece that the brushes ride on) reverses the current in sequence so that the magnetic field first pulls toward the magnet then as the armature approaches the magnet it pushes away. (Because both magnets have north and south poles).
If you have shorted some of the armature windings by melting, or burning insulation, the undamaged ones will still create a magnetic field so the damaged starter will still turn but not generate enough horsepower to crank the engine. If the commutator is dirty or segments are shorted together, again, the motor may spin but not develop adequate power.
The black wire from your solenoid is the ground for the solenoid. I have never seen one connected that high on the engine. the ones I have seen were connected to the lower shroud. The other fine wire (usually yellow but could be another color) on the solenoid is the neutral interlock wire. It comes from the microswitch on the shift linkage. When you turn the ignition to start, current is sent to one side of this switch. If the switch is depressed (engine in neutral) the current goes to the solenoid and activates it. This closes a high current contact which sends battery current through the solenoid to the starter motor.
I don't understand what you mean about hot wiring the starter. If you want to bypass the ignition switch, just jump from the battery side of the solenoid to the neutral interlock terminal on it. It is low current so it only sparks a little if you use a jumper wire.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,921
Re: Starter test

Frank,

Thanks for being a part of this board.

You have a wealth of practical information and experience, and very easy to follow explanations. I hope you stick around and continue to educate the current and future members of iboats.
thanks.
 

Jeffreyi

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
107
Re: Starter test

Thanks Frank.

You and the other knowledgeable folks on this site are really are very helpful. It's a great resource because of you and your "pals".
 

BOBPELL

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
81
Re: Starter test

roscoe said:
Frank,

Thanks for being a part of this board.

You have a wealth of practical information and experience, and very easy to follow explanations. I hope you stick around and continue to educate the current and future members of iboats.
thanks.

I'll second that - 8)8)8)
 
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