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  1. #1
    Petty Officer 2nd Class
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    Default Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    I've got a '65 West Bend (12 Hp), that I'm going over, and am wanting to check the magneto coil.I suppose first off, I should ask - What is the "proper" procedure for checking spark while cranking? My manual says to pull the spark plug, then hold the spark plug WIRE about 1/8" from the cylindar head.. Problem is that the rubber boot is longer than that, and won't allow a spark to jump while next to the cylindar head. Am I actually supposed to leave the spark plug attached to the wire? and put the plug body next to the cylindar head while cranking?Now - on to my actual problem that I need assistance with:I'm trying to take off the magneto coil assembly. I Removed the nut & small plate from the top of the flywheel assembly, however I cannot get the flywheel to lift off. I suppose I'm just a panzy-***** and don't want to hit it with a hammer (joke!). Is there an easy way of lifting it off?Parts of the my motor's section in "Old Outboard service manual" mention removing the magneto assembly - but of course, don't explain "how".Thanks in advance!Rex

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Hi rexTake the plug wire off and install it on a old plug. adjust the old plug to manual specs for gap, (1/8"seems low but..) and hold tight to block. The old mag ignition doesn't produce much voltage at starting speed, so the potential of arc damage is minimal.To remove the flywheel, pry up gently on the edge of the flywheel with a pry bar. With the crank nut loose but still on just below threads, hit the crank using a brass or dead blow hammer(I often use a steel hammer, but if inexperienced, will damage threads). If the flywheel doesn't pop up, you may need to install a puller (steeringwheel or dampner puller will work) Look for threads in flywheel for this purpose. good luck!!!
    Alias "schematic"

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Thanks Schematic!I'll do some more work in daylight tomorrow, if it's not raining - and will update on progress after I see whether I've got spark or not.Rex Smith

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    you are so lucky with the rain and all....our lake is down big time. we got snow, but not enough to make a difference. Only enough to make it cold Brrrrrrrrrrr.
    Alias "schematic"

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    I'm still unsuccessful at getting the magneto off of the motor. Tried prying, knocking upwards around the edges with a hammer (against a piece of wood)... I have a steering wheel puller, however, there are no threaded holes for using the animal.The good news is that we're not being rained upon, and it's 70+ degrees today.I may post a pic. to see if anyone has a suggestion.Thanks,Rex

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Okay... Here's several pics of the magneto in question....Rex's Boat Pics http://home.attbi.com/~rexsmith/boat/ And since I posted more pics, on a prior thread of mine, someone had mentioned using Kroil for my rusty bolts... No dice, yet. I'm going to wind up using a hacksaw to remove them, and find a new clamp bolt... Look at the pics, and You'll see what I mean.Rex

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    hey man, nice picturesI'd be putting penetrating oil on that crank area and letting it soak overnight. When you attempt to strike the end of the crank, it has to be a good hard direct blow (while keeping upward tension on the flywheel with a pry bar or screwdriver). Just tapping it to the sound of music will only pee it off! And ofcourse, if you miss, you'll damage the threads.The easiest and safest way is to acquire a brass or aluminum pin or drift(5"-6"long, 1"or larger O.D.)reinstall the nut so its just under flush of the crank. Get someone to apply upward pressure on flywheel for you, while you hold the pin tightly onto crank. Hit it good and hard with a 2 pound hammer or so.(careful not to hit hand!)If this doesn't work, you may have to thread the three bosses (holes)in the flywheel and install puller.good luck man!!
    Alias "schematic"

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Thanks Schematic,I'll do that tonite, and see what I can punch out in the morning.On another note - My buddy came over, and we checked for spark... no spark as far as we could tell - from EITHER plug - on either wire. That tells me that we need to get that flywheel off to see what's going on under the hood.There are 2 wires (that for lack of better term) look like 110v AC lamp cord coming out with the spark plug wires, and the ends are shrink tubed, and they are tied-off out of the way on the side of the motor. I got curious, and measured resistance to ground on both of these... results? They both showed 0 ohms... They are both grounding. Should there be any other reading off of those?Seems like no matter how deep I go... the stuff keeps getting deeper! hahaRex

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Hi rexas far as the electrical goes, I've never seen your engine type. If you post a wiring diagram, I'll tell you what there for. I'd guess there for a lighting coil or possibly a remote shut off.>have you ever had this engine running?good luck on your flywheel !
    Alias "schematic"

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Nope... Never had it running. It was ran by my wife's grandfather back in the late 1960's and early 70's. He says that there was never more than 2 tanks of gas run through it. He & his wife got into a fight while on the lake, and decided that that boat could just sit in the yard and never go anywhere. So that's what it did since the early 1970's - until he gave it to me last month.If it looks like parts and repairs are too much to bother with, then I suspect that I might be better off getting a newer motor that actually runs when I aquire it! (grin)Honestly, though, I really think that this one will run. It's just a matter of 'figgerin' out what each parts function is, and take it one step at a time.I don't know if you have it, or have seen it, but on page 8 of "The Old Outboard service manual - Vol 1" (I'll post the pic to my site tonite) is a diagram of the flywheel magneto assembly. They have only labeled some of the arts - and of course, do not label the wires that are hanging off (I suspect they might have been placed there with the thought that a boat owner could use them for a battery charging system... who knows)Rex

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    those are some badly rusted mounts you have there. cut the tightening bolts off close the the bracket and take them in to a shop. They'll drill them out and refresh the threads(unless you can find used) We don't have corrosion like that around here, so I bet I could find some if so desired!I'm hoping the underside of the flywheel looks better than your brackets!Have you done a compression test yet?
    Alias "schematic"

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Just posted the book picture... Hope that clarifies what I'm looking at - so update or refresh your screen on the page.While in the yard for the last 30 years, the boat held not only water, but lots of old junk - that rusted in the water, along with the bolts. The rust has discolored the aluminum hull - but it's only that - discoloration. The wheels of the trailer sank deep into the ground, and rusted, as well - so I replaced the hubs & tires. The axle was in pristine condition when I removed the hubs. No rust inside, so the seals held through the years.I'm not so hopeful for the water pump & seals! haha I'll surely have to change the water pump impeller and seals, and possibly the fuel pump diaphram - but that'll be later down the list.No - I have not performed a compression test. Will see if I can find a friend with a compression tester to do that with.\Rex

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Rex for what its worth when i used to work on those motors with the S**** name on them we would run 1/4x20 self tapping bolts in the 3 holes in the top of the flywheel so we could use a harmonic balancer puller on them as i said for what its worth

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    those two wires go to coil primary and are probably intended for a remote kill switch. They will read .3 ohm - .8 ohm which is easily mistaken as a ground. Very little concern here. More concerned with how the cylinder and crank looks.......The points are probably oxidized(corroded) to the point of no connection, thats why no spark...Good luck...
    Alias "schematic"

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Norman,That may be the key to getting that flywheel off! I'll see if Pep Boys or Harbor Freight have an inexpensive H. Balancer puller..... Or heck - the guys at NAPA might let me borrow one.(Luckily, I live within 1 mile of a Harbor Freight retail store!)

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Whoopie!The penetrating oil and a hammer did the trick. Just had to sit a while to get in there real good.You were right about the contact points. They do have a good layer of oxidation on them. Wiped them clean with a soft cloth & WD40, and look good, now.Haven't checked for spark, yet - but will later.You were right on the money on those "spare" wires that I had inquired about, too. Yes - both read at .7 ohms.Hopefully I'll be able to check compression in the morning. Found a compression tester at Harbor Freight for $19 - Hope it fits my needs.So at this point - I have more work to do to see which direction I need to turn in my repairs.Thanks for all your help!Rex

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    hi.One more thing.....when you go to reinstall the flywheel onto the crank, be sure to clean the crank taper and the flywheel taper thoroughly. Use alcohol or lacquer thinner to remove all oil films from the surfaces.If you don't have a clean taper and a proper nut torque, the key will wear or shear.luck to you!!
    Alias "schematic"

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Okay - an update with info. It's not looking good, though.Checked compression on both cylinders: In both cases it is right at 60 psi. That's low, according to my service manual - it says I need to be around 80 psi.Also - I used an inline spark plug tester with the light inside of it. As far as I can tell, I'm getting no spark at all from the ignition system on either plug.I've posted more pics from the magneto/ignition system - Is there anything else that I can check? Possibly continuity of the spark plug wires? (I tried to check - but the wires go straight into the sealed coil.) Any clues as to at what point I should try to check continuity to?Thanks,Rex http://home.attbi.com/~rexsmith/boat/

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    FILE THE POINTS.USE BRAKE CLEARER.IT WOULD BE BEST TO CHANGE OURPOINT AND CONDENSER.SET AT .030 TO START WITH.SAND YOUR FLYWHELL AND COIL.IF NO SPARK THEN IT YOURCOIL.REXA1925

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    helloAgain, nice pictures. I like someone as thorough as you!!>as far as I can see, looks like point gap is way too wide.(maybe its just a bad view)maybe take another photo closer to points (rotate crank first so that one set of points is as wide open as possible)>rotate the crank (in clockwise rotation only) until point cam is positioned on the highest point of cam.(points are wide open) >adjust points to .018-.020 with feeler blade>clean points by allowing them to close on a folded piece of crokus cloth(pull out and repeat several times)make the last pull with a clean piece of paper!!! any residue left will add resistance>with points open, measure resistance from end of plug wire terminal to ground. 6000-9000 ohms(generic)(plug wire included)>with points open, measure from moveable point contact to ground. .3-.9 ohm(generic)Good luck!!
    Alias "schematic"

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Well, I guess we have good news again.Both Spark plug wires are reading at 7128 ohms from plug boot to ground.Open point gaps are both reading .7 ohms to ground. - and are both set to .020 according to my gauge.Top cylinder - after cleaning the points (again) is now sparking! YAAAY. Bottom cylinder - no dice, yet - but I'll work on it tomorrow morning when it's light outside again (and up in the high 70's I might add).Rex

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    >clean points by allowing them to close on a folded piece of crokus cloth(pull out and repeat several times)make the last pull with a clean piece of paper!!! any residue left will add resistance.Good luck!!spray the cylinders with a good shot of WD-40
    Alias "schematic"

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Rex as long as that motor has sat with out running i wouldn't be too worried about the low compression. when you get it running it will come up. compression tests should be done with the motor warm from running not the weather

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    WOOO HOOOOOGuess what????!!!!The baby run!!!!!Got the other contact points cleaned up REAL nice, then the lower cylinder plug started sparking! Plugged it back in to the cylinder, pulled the rope, and "Cough" - it "wanted" to start. So I filled up the trashcan underneath it with water, hooked up the gasline, and pulled the rope.Cough.... Sputter.... VrooooommmmmmmI ran it for a good 3-4 minutes. Water was pumping well, it was coming out the water outlet. Fuel "seemed" to be pumping. I'll know better later this afternoon.The only bad news right now is that I need to keep a few shear-pins (keys) on hand for emergencies. I tried cranking her again, and wouldn't start - so opened up the flywheel again. And just as you had predicted, the shear-pin had snapped. I'll have to make sure of the torque on that top-nut.Rex (adrenaline is still pumping!)

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Magneto Coil Removal & Check - need assistance

    Good deal Rex! Persistence pays off. No greater reward than to take a seemingly useless hunk of metal and get her going again. Backlash

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