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  1. #1
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    Default SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    I´VE SEEN MANY COMPARATIVES POST ABOUT POWER & FUEL ECONOMY BETWEEN 2 STROKES & 4 STROKES ENGINE.BUT, NOW, THE QUESTION IS: IF YOU COMPARE 2 ENGINES (2& 4 STROKE) WITH THE SAME GREAT MAINTENANCE,SAME OIL QUALITY LEVEL, PUSHING SAME BOAT......WHICH ENGINE OFFER MORE DURABILITY?2 OR 4 STROKES?????BOTH OFFER MORE THAN 2000 HRS OF LIFE TIME???THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR KIND COMMENTS CARLOS S.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    I have a 2003 Suzuki 40 hp on my 17' basstracker. compairing it to a 2 stroke of the same horse power. The suzuki never lets me down. 2 stroke wont either if you take care of it.Holeshot:2 stroke gets the nod.fuel economy: 4 strokeease of maint: 4 strokesmoothness: 4 strokequiet: 4 stroke...(barely hear it running)But if you really want to sh** and get you need to by a bigger 4 stroke to compair to a 2 stroke of the same caliber.Just My Opinion,Suzuki40

  3. #3
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    Sirs,Long time ago, I posted a Survey regarding comparative 2 Stroke Vs 4 Stroke OB engines.Could some of you compare both engines about:1- Engine lifetime? (In hours...)2- Engine overhaul cost?3- Mainteanance cost?Ref. engine: 225 Hp. Thanks for your attention.Best regardsCarlos Schemel

  4. #4
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    Carlos, Que Pasa amigo? 2 stroke is a much more effecient design, but here in the states, 4 strokes are being pushed onto us because of emissions. Allthough the 4 strokes give a lot of benefits back to us, I think hour for hour the 2 stroke runs better with less maintenance, less cost, and less weight. Down in your world, I think two strokes will be around for a while. If you like quiet and fuel economy, then 4 stroke is your choice.......

  5. #5
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    don't need a computer diagnotic tool to work onMY '70 1150

  6. #6
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    Me, I'm holding out for an E-tec direct injection 4-rotor Rotary (Wankel).

  7. #7
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    Moving to General Outboard.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    Jimd, If I only had the bucks, but a 4 rotor? Wouldn't be that hard to get that power reliably out of a pair of well tuned & maybe turbocharged 13b rotors. 3 rotors would do it easy without the turbo... Great concept; I love that idea!I have observed and worked on a lot of other engines much longer than I have water cooled 2 stroke motors. In my experience the significantly better lubrication of the 4 stroke does add much to its ultimately better durability compared to air cooled two stroke motors. I don't see why the same priciple shouldn't also apply to any well designed 4 stroke (water cooled) outboard motor as compared to a two stroke outboard, perhaps to a somewhat lesser degree. One big question is which particular model motor is well enough designed to last a very long time; which motors have a reputation for giving long service without having to repair things which should not need repairing? I would buy according to specifics more than generalizations. An even bigger question of course is will you be able to find qualified service and parts for that motor? The other issues may not make much difference if needed support is not available.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    I remember seeing a company online that made force fed rotary engines as inboards.. apparently much smaller then traditional inboards.. and just as effective..I'd take an E-tec or a 4 stroke (efi) if weight was not a consideration.. but if holeshot and weight are considerations.. I'd take the E-tec..Plus it just sounds cooler.. :-)rgdsFranki

  10. #10
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    I'm leaning toward an E-tec on my next rig. But dang it, I can't get one on a new Whaler.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    i'm with the e-tec!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    Considering my motor is a 1969 Merc 1250 that runs great, I would tend to lean towards 2 stroke. Other than the homelite/bearcat 55 4 stroke that came out in 1961, 4 stroke outboards don't have the history like the 2 strokes. I think the new 4 strokes if maintained well will last a very long time, but I am intrigued by the E-Tec. In my opinion its all in how you care for it. I know a guy who could probably kill a Honda 4 stroke in a years time if given the chance...

  13. #13
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    ...WHICH ENGINE OFFER MORE DURABILITY?2 OR 4 STROKES?????BOTH OFFER MORE THAN 2000 HRS OF LIFE TIME???
    My experience is that 4-strokes offer better durability and engine life.I might get 2000 hours out of a 2-stroke, but 3000+ hours is not uncommon with my 4-strokes. This is mostly due to the fact that the 4-strokes have a pressurized oil system. The bearings and internals of the engine get a constant and plentiful supply of undiluted motor oil, at any speed. The oil not only helps to lubricate better, but it provides additional cooling and crankcase cleaning. The oil filter collects any contaminates. Add this to the larger displacement engines which fire half as many times and run cooler cylinder temperatures, and durability over time adds up.I think if you contact an outboard manufacturer who makes both 2 and 4-stroke outboards, they will tell you that their 4-strokes offer more durability. I spoke with a Yamaha engineer concerning which would be best for my fleet, and he steered me in the direction of 4-strokes. He has not been wrong. In fact, my operation has saved money using them.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    The following article is of the opinions and statements of AFA Marine, inc. The number one factor lately is whether to purchase a new or used two stroke or four stroke engine. When faced with this decision you must prioritize several features that are prevalent in each motor. For example, two-stroke motors are lighter, faster (in most cases) and less expensive. Four-stroke motors are cleaner, smoother, and more economical. Many people who run in lakes and rivers prefer 4 stroke boat motors because they make great trolling motors and meet the 2006 EPA mandated requirements. Others prefer 2 stroke engines when the need for top end performance and acceleration takes precedence. This is not to say that two-stroke engines cannot troll or four stroke motors are not fast. It's just a matter of preferences, features, and benefits that attract customers. Regardless of what you choose to purchase, if you use due diligence and do your research you cannot go wrong, Below is a table of pros and cons for both motors: 2-Stroke OutboardsPros* Cons* Lighter More Pollution Accelerate Fast, In some Cases More Top End Smoke Purchase Price Less Expensive Must Mix Gas with Oil (Non Oil Injection Models) Easier to Repair Rougher Idle than 4 strokes Have Been Around For Almost 80 Years Noiser than Four Stroke Outboards Very Strong Used Market Harder to Start (in some cases) Parts Availability Carburetors gum up if not used often High Resale Value, High Demand Spark Plug Fouling Simple Design Meaning Less Things To Go Wrong - 4-Stroke OutboardsPros* Cons* Quiet Heavy Smooth Often Expensive to Repair Great Trolling Motors Not As Many Trained Mechanics Yet (Growing Rapidly) No Oil/Gas Mixture Often Expensive to Purchase Smooth Idle Technology Still Being Improved Less Pollution Very Limited Used Market (Although Growing Rapidly) Accepted at Any Body of Water More Parts to Malfunction (Technology Improving)* Future Production will Be all 4-Stroke or Similar Most Not as Powerful as 2-Stroke Rated At Same HP* Very Reliable Harder to transport or position in storage w/o a stand *These are based on AFA Marine's Comparisons. We in no way are responsible for purchasing decisions influenced by the material found on this web page. Please do your own research prior to making an outboard motor purchase. This article does not compare direct fuel injected 2 stroke models. Summary:What should I buy, a 4-Stroke or a 2-Stroke? Well that really depends on your boating situation. Here is list that may help you decide which motor is appropriate for you. Choosing a Four-Stroke Outboard EngineWhen you are required to operate in a "4-Stroke Only" body of water To use as a lake trolling motor when smooth and quiet operation is a priority Larger budget to spend on a motor When weight of engine is not an issue When you feel as though noise and smoke are serious factors in your purchasing decision To use as a kicker or emergency back up motor on your boat. If you don't want the hassle of mixing gas and oil. If you are dissatisfied with two stroke performance Choosing a Two-Stroke Outboard EngineWhen you are not required to operate in a "4-Stroke Only" body of waterTo use as an emergency back up or kicker motorLimited budget to spend on a motorWhen weight of engine is an issue and you want the most power for the weight.Familiarity with engine repairsLimit budge on repair costsHard usage and abuse and you want something that can be modified, repaired, and adjusted easilySpeed, acceleration, top-end, and performance are issues.Interested in finding a good deal on a used motor. There are more used 2-stroke outboards available.If you want motor that all marine mechanics are certified to work on. You really cannot go wrong with either choice. Both motors have their advantages and limitations. Right now you are safe to purchase a 2-stroke motor in most places and not have to worry about being excluded from boating. There are some lakes that require 4-stroke motors but the majority have not adapted these mandates yet. We suggest that you review some of the information on this page as a source of knowledge when it comes time to purchase an outboard motor.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    That article is a bit out of date because it does not include the HPDI, FICHT, E-TEC, and OptiMax DFI motors which have the advantages of a 4 stroke (no smoke, quiet, smooth) but the performance of a 2 stroke. They all meet EPa 2006 emission regulations and can be used wherever a 4 stroke is allowed. Some DFI's have fewer total emissions that the 4-strokes.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    The original question was not about emissions and the date of an article. It was about durability and life-span. Direct injected 2-strokes don't have a reputation for long life and durabilty, at least not compared to a 4-stroke. Sorry.

  17. #17
    Admiral walleyehed's Avatar
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    Four-stroke motors are cleaner, smoother, and more economical. Many people who run in lakes and rivers prefer 4 stroke boat motors because they make great trolling motors and meet the 2006 EPA mandated requirements.
    Less Pollution Very Limited Used Market (Although Growing Rapidly)
    Future Production will Be all 4-Stroke or Similar
    This article does not compare direct fuel injected 2 stroke models.
    When you feel as though noise and smoke are serious factors in your purchasing decision
    I think Seahorse done right by saying it was out-dated info, and by all means, we want to see the information most recent, to make the best decision possible. Simply put, he included the engines that were not compared, and the fact that many of the newer 2-strokes have lower emissions-good info for someone weighing the pros and cons.....

  18. #18
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    hello yep DFI has a reputation alright. they dont outlast the payments yet. it will take a lot of boating years to pay off a 15,000 dollar outboard, I dont think many DFI motors are gonna do it. I know 3 merc dealers that if they rebuild an opti-max that is out of warrenty the only warrenty they will give is that the assymbly of the motor is correct and free of defects when it was assembled. I wont give any warrenty on FICT motors and I doubt I will on HPDI as they age. the factory has a problem making them stay together how can I. I give a year warrenty on any motor I build other than DFI. getting back to the post. a well maintained v6 two stroke has no problem going 3-4ooo hours. so far the 4strokes are new enough that the durability issure is still out on large 150Hp and up motors. and For Carlos Eduraudo what part of VE ya from? my honey lives in caracas and has a place in Rio Chico. I go there sometimes and do a bit. its hard to say there because the parts are so iffy. I saw a lot of yamahas and a couple mercs and mostly older OMC products. I would opt for a carbed 2 stroke in that areagood luck and keep posting
    no tech questions by PM, they wont get answered.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    It doesn't matter Walleyehed. The topic is about durability.
    I think Seahorse done right by saying it was out-dated info...
    Who cares? There was nothing in that article relating to durability. All seahorse did was distract from the topic by talking about his beloved direct injection and emissions. Who really cares? We want to know about durability.BTW, although that article was written over a year ago, it's still currently being used as a buying reference. Check out the date of this copy, if it matters so much to you.... http://www.amateurboatbuilding.com/content/view/12/25/
    Simply put, he included the engines that were not compared and the fact that many of the newer 2-strokes have lower emissions...
    The topic is not about how direct injection competes with 4-strokes. Or emissions. Or some buying guide. It was about durability.
    good info for someone weighing the pros and cons.....
    The original post wasn't weighing the "pros and cons". He already did that, and he specifically said so. It was about durability.Walleyehed, if you and your buddy seahorse have some history or experience concerning the durability of 2-strokes compared to 4-strokes, then lets have it. Otherwise leave the arguing and distractions somewhere else.I don't know anyone who would defend the durability of a direct injection 2-stroke in comparison to a 4-stroke. They simply do not have a good reputation.

  20. #20
    Admiral walleyehed's Avatar
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    Forktail, if we're comparing engines, let's compare ALL of them, DFI's included, whether they are good or bad...that's all I meant by what I posted. Topic WAS 2 vs. 4...why leave one whole class out???
    Otherwise leave the arguing and distractions somewhere else.
    Set the example my friend, nothing said by me or others indicate any argument.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    Walleyehed, who was leaving direct injection 2-strokes out? A 2-stroke is a 2-stroke, whether it's direct injected or not. Only you and seahorse seem to be hung up on classifying them as something else, or making some point. As far as I know, the rest of us were including them. Even the article that was posted said, "This article does not compare direct fuel injected 2 stroke models."What part of that don't you understand?BTW, your input on durability throughout this thread has been astonishing. Thanks for addressing the real issue here.

  22. #22
    Admiral walleyehed's Avatar
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    There are carbed 2-stroke Johnson/Evinrude engines in my area that I have either worked on, or O/H'd that have, in some cases, over 4000 hrs., about 50% of those have been rebuilt. The durability is greatly increased when the engine is run every day so all parts are never subjected to rust, or corrosion, bad, or stale fuel....such as your engines...The ave. person doesn't use an engine like you do, and because of that, the wear rate is greater do to deposites of rust, corrosion, sediment in the fuel/oil, storage time, etc.I have nothing against 4-strokes except maybe weight, cost, and being cold-blooded.Durability doesn't come to mind when I think of 4-strokes at this time. When 25 years have gone by, and the 4-strokes of that vintage have shown the test of time in years, not hours persay, then I'll reconsider my opinion. You may not know this, but I have posted many times of my employment with Kansas dept. of wildlife and parks, and we USE Merc 4-strokes, and have for 6 years.....I'm not impressed. They were in the shop as much, if not more than the 2-strokes....and quiet at IDLE, yes, at WOT,...can't say it's that noticable. During each 5-day netting session, we'd put about 12-15hrs a day on these rigs, and the western half of Kansas is controlled by 4 biologists, which all use the same 2 boats all year long...1 shocker boat, and 1 net boat.Between net-sets we leave the engine running now because of an ave. of 5 starters per year. We are down to 3 on the net boat and 1 replacement on the shocker boat this last season.I run my own boat (2-stroke) about 200-250 hrs a year, nothing like what we put on the 4-strokes, but I have had very little problem with any of the crossflow OMC's I've owned...oh, I did have a trim relay crap-out one time, and I think I got some fishing line wrapped around the prop-shaft once, and cut a seal. My old 1977, 115 rude has just under 3500 hours, and yea, it's been torn down to put 1 piston in cause I thought it wouldn't last long enough to be worth 4 pistons.....that was over 1000 hrs ago, but I'm as far from an Ocean enviornment as you can get, so that isn't a fair comparison, but I guess 27yrs doesn't count either, so as I said, when the 4-strokes roll over 25yrs., we'll see whats workin' and what ain't.

  23. #23
    Moderator JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    Gentlemen.Do you think it contributes to answering Carlos' question to nit-pick one another's input??Forktail may be one of only a few people in the world with so much real life experience with 4 stroke durability. His input is credible.DFI engines have, so far, not proved as durable as carbed 2 strokes. I think you agree on that. So do I. I think we can also agree that any engine must be correctly operated and maintained to be durable.Please focus on Carlos' question, not on flaws in someone else's input.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: SURVEY: 2 STROKES VS 4 STROKES DURABILITY

    i doubt any one here could guarantee that for example: a 2002 90hp 4 stroke will definatly outlast a 2002 90hp 2 stroke of the same manufacturer, or the other way around! but what you can guarantee is the price is going to be much higher for the four stroke, but all that looks like its changing now with the new two strokes of the future. thats my thought on it anyway! some believe in 4 strokes, some believe in two strokes. which is more durable? we may never know for sure. i just go with what i can afford!

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