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  1. #1
    Lieutenant Junior Grade pecheux's Avatar
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    Question high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Good day y'awl, Just filled up a supply of gas/oil mix for my cottage outboard motor at a country gas station (Ultramar - Canada) and was supprised to see Ethanol 10% in regular and mid range gas ... but not in high test, this is new to me at that particular station (if not in my region in Canada). So I filled up with high test since it will take several months prior to burning it all and I prefered not having Ethanol in the mix for that reason. Question is: Will the motor run hotter with hight test gasoline ? Tx
    a bad day fishing is better than a good day at work ..

  2. #2
    Fleet Admiral HT32BSX115's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    [QUOTE=pecheux;3226504 Will the motor run hotter with hight test gasoline ? Tx[/QUOTE]

    No. You will not be able to tell the difference.

    I'll also add that if you want to determine if the gas REALLY has ethanol in it you'll have to test it to verify.

    http://www.eaa.org/autofuel/autogas/test_kit.asp


    Cheers,


    Rick
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  3. #3
    Supreme Mariner Silvertip's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    High test gas is not "better" gas. It is not needed for your engine and ethanol blended fuel, contrary to popular belief does not turn to sludge in a couple weeks, two months, six months, or a year. How do we know this? Been using the stuff since 1997. Add Stabil or SeaFoam and go boating. As for running hotter -- NO! Premium fuel burns slower than regular since it's main purpose in life is to prevent detonation in high compression engines (which yours is not -- even though we don't know what kind it is). There is zero benefit to burning premium fuel -- except it empties your wallet quicker.

  4. #4
    Fleet Admiral HT32BSX115's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    There is zero benefit to burning premium fuel -- except it empties your wallet quicker.
    Absolutely true unless you're running a higher than normal compression ratio engine. ( that the manufacturer indicates MUST be operated on "Premium" fuel)
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  5. #5
    Seaman Timguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Ethanol will in time, also damage any component containing rubber. Alcohol will suspend its own weight in water and for that reason should not be stored for long periods without a stabilizing additive, or in a partially full container or in a container without a tight cap......especially in moist environments. In our remote Canadian camps we shy away from fuel containing alcohol/ethanol. Our motors are pre 1990 and rubber compositions can be damaged. Stabilizing additives are not always available or properly applied, they can add to our overhead as well.

  6. #6
    Admiral
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Ethanol will not hold its own weight in water in an E-10 fuel mix.

    There is no stabilizer that will stop phase separation....well except for more ethanol.

  7. #7
    Lieutenant Junior Grade pecheux's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timguy View Post
    Ethanol will in time, also damage any component containing rubber. Alcohol will suspend its own weight in water and for that reason should not be stored for long periods without a stabilizing additive, or in a partially full container or in a container without a tight cap......especially in moist environments. In our remote Canadian camps we shy away from fuel containing alcohol/ethanol. Our motors are pre 1990 and rubber compositions can be damaged. Stabilizing additives are not always available or properly applied, they can add to our overhead as well.
    Thank you for your feedback, this seems to apply to this one litle old 6 hp motor kit sitting at the dock full time with the tank in the boat around the clock for 4 months or so, in a Canadian northern environement. Fortunatly I do have an OMC metal gas tank without a venting screw so I would presume little air/gas contact to occur.
    a bad day fishing is better than a good day at work ..

  8. #8
    Lieutenant Junior Grade pecheux's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ondarvr View Post
    Ethanol will not hold its own weight in water in an E-10 fuel mix.

    There is no stabilizer that will stop phase separation....well except for more ethanol.
    I am not sure I understand this technicality ??
    a bad day fishing is better than a good day at work ..

  9. #9
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Gday,Every outboard mechanic I ask re putting ethanol 10% fuel in 2 stroke answers NO.
    Only recently Australia has converted the old 91 octane to 10% ethanol.Forcing most of us to go to the more expensive 95 and 98 octane.$$$$ sux.

  10. #10
    Supreme Mariner Silvertip's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    And every mechanic on the planet blames ethanol for every engine ailment known to man. Isn't it amazing that we can store classic cars, boats, motor homes, lawn tractors, mowers, etc., for six months at a time during our long winters and they run just fine in the spring -- provided Stabil or a similar product is used. If high moisture is an issue for you -- install a water separating fuel filter and go boating. Again -- there is a bunch of hogwash being spread here.

  11. #11
    Seaman Timguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    I appreciate your ideas, but I have run 2 remote camps in NW Ontario since 1972 and never any fuel related problems until recent years with "modern" fuel formulations. I am not new to this business. I know how to make my equipment last.

  12. #12
    Admiral
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pecheux View Post
    I am not sure I understand this technicality ??

    The more ethanol in the blend, the more water can be absorbed before any phase separation takes place, so this about the only thing that can help to prevent it. Other additives make vague claims as to what they may do, but all they can really help with is keeping the gas fresh for a longer period of time.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timguy View Post
    I appreciate your ideas, but I have run 2 remote camps in NW Ontario since 1972 and never any fuel related problems until recent years with "modern" fuel formulations. I am not new to this business. I know how to make my equipment last.

    During the transition to "new fuels" (which took place about 20 years ago in my area) there can be many issues as the build up of gunk from the old fuel is flushed from the system by the ethanol, which is a very good system cleaner. Everything from the fuel trucks to the gas stations and your gas cans will have junk in them, this will all be cleaned out by the new fuel and find its way into your motor if the correct filter isn't used. Plus if your motors are all pre 90s models, the rubber parts were very old before the ethanol ever got to them, and depending on how old they are they may be pre-ethanol models. Any motor that old should have had most of the components that may have been susceptible to ethanol replaced a long time ago if good maintenance practices have been performed on them.

    Is the new stuff great…..no…..is it the evil monster many make it out to be…..again the answer is no.

  14. #14
    Lieutenant Junior Grade pecheux's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Thank you all for your informative feedback. Considering the pros and cons and considering this small boat will only use about 10 to 15 gallons of gas mix within approx 4.5 months in a very damp environement, it would seem to me after reading the multiple opinions that I may have done the right move by using non-ethanol gas, plus additional cost $ is no issue. Main question regarding the motor running hotter with high test gas has been answered.
    Cheers.
    a bad day fishing is better than a good day at work ..

  15. #15
    Fleet Admiral HT32BSX115's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pecheux View Post
    Thank you all for your informative feedback. Considering the pros and cons and considering this small boat will only use about 10 to 15 gallons of gas mix within approx 4.5 months in a very damp environement, it would seem to me after reading the multiple opinions that I may have done the right move by using non-ethanol gas, plus additional cost $ is no issue. Main question regarding the motor running hotter with high test gas has been answered.
    Cheers.
    If you can get NON-ethanol gas (and you decide to believe it is truly ethanol free), then run it if it makes you feel better.

    Around here in the NW, it's very hard (and inconvenient) to find non-ethanol gasoline. I have run it (E10) in everything I own (except my airplane) and have never had a problem....

    My boat has a 44 gallon tank. I store it (inside) for the winter with less than 1/4 tank. I don't use STABIL or any other snake oil in the fuel and just fill it up in the spring.

    I have had the tank out and have NEVER found water (or anything else) in the tank.

    Do that which makes you feel good.....

    ymmv........


    Rick
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  16. #16
    Supreme Mariner Silvertip's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    I just replaced the fuel line in a 30 year old chain saw that has seen nothing but ethanol blended fuel since 1997. The line was still soft and pliable but broke off where it enters the tank. The tank itself was absolutely spotless. This saw has cut a lot of wood and neither the engine or carb have ever been touched. Same for my mowers, weed whips, blowers, and yes -- my 1949 Johnson outboards and my newer boats. By the way -- my car uses E-85 as long as the price difference between it and regular (E-10) is 40 cents/gal or more. Regular is $3.94 today. E-85 is $3.29 today.

  17. #17
    Seaman Timguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Yes the lines tend to break at the couplings. The older saws with rubber tubes soon become "punky" unless the tanks are drained for periods of non use. The early OMC's didn't have a crank seal and damage from alc. is limited to hoses and pressure tank components of rubber composition. When crankshaft seals were implemented, early compositions were not engineered to be compatible with alc. I have replaced many crank seals in saws and outboards through the 60's and 70's that were used with fuel containing alc. For this reason I cannot and will not recommend its use for equipment of this era. If you doubt my claims then try soaking a piece of rubber tubing in a bottle of ethanol pump gas for 6 or 8 months. Use a glass jar and a lid with a poor seal. If you want faster results then try E85. I really think ethanol is ok when used with proper equipment. It is certainly not to blame for all ailments. Regards, Tim

  18. #18
    Lieutenant Junior Grade pecheux's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Very convincing ... LOL I must have been reading the wrong threads regarding Ethanol .... LOL LOL Tx
    a bad day fishing is better than a good day at work ..

  19. #19
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Quote Originally Posted by HT32BSX115 View Post
    I have run it (E10) in everything I own (except my airplane)
    Um. Why don't you run it in yer airplane?
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Quote Originally Posted by V153 View Post
    Um. Why don't you run it in yer airplane?
    It's about as illegal as it can get.

    Here's a great read on whatever you ever wanted to know about running mogas in an airplane engine. there's a lot of into there and some of it could apply to marine engines.......

    http://www.eaa.org/autofuel/
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  21. #21
    Senior Chief Petty Officer elkhunter338's Avatar
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    My experience with 10% eth gas in my 2 stroke 15 and 25 hp outboards. After the gas sits for 4 or more weeks one will not start the other smokes. If I use non eth gas both start and run fine with gas that is months old. Even if I use stabil the eth gas does not start as well. So I stopped using 10 eth gas in my 2 stroke outboards. I ran 10% eth for a few years before switching back and I can see an improvement in starting and the smoke.
    I live in a dry climate and store my boats inside. I also ran 10eth in my I/O for several years with no problems but used stabil. I have since switched back to non eth fuel in my I/O due to fear of issues that you hear about caused by moisture and eth fuel.

  22. #22

    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    I normally try to stay away from threads regarding ethanol vs non ethanol fuel threads on the different forums I frequent but the initial question here will the higher octane fuel cause my motor to run hotter is the perception that a lot of people have concerning fuel and higher octanes.

    As previously stated just the opposite will occur as the higher octane fuel will burn at a slower rate and burn cooler which in a low compression (compression ratio not requiring higher octane fuel!) 2 stroke engine will cause its own set of problems. The higher octane fuel actually requires the heat and pressures generated by the higher compression ratios to burn properly and without that will result in an incomplete burn of the fuel charge in the cylinder.

    That incomplete burn can lead to a quicker and higher level of carbon buildup in the combustion chamber. With all of the research that the outboard manufacturers have done regarding the effect of the ethanol gas in their products then I would tend to think that considering the fuel conditioners and stabilizers they recommend as snake oils as just disregarding the information they are trying to pass on to their customers.

    I do have one station here in my area that still sells non-ethanol 87 octane fuel at a 10 cents per gallon higher pricing than the ethanol version and I tend to buy the majority of fuel for my boat from them. But I still treat the fuel regardless. A little snake oil is a lot cheaper than a possible avoidable trip to the repair shop!

  23. #23
    Admiral
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    [QUOTE=vWith all of the research that the outboard manufacturers have done regarding the effect of the ethanol gas in their products then I would tend to think that considering the fuel conditioners and stabilizers they recommend as snake oils as just disregarding the information they are trying to pass on to their customers.[/QUOTE]

    If you look at the ingredients in some of the products marketed by the manufactures you will see many are just snake oil, with very high levels of…..guess what.....alcohol.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    Remember that in the days of "regular" fuel octanes were higher and lead was used. The 60's and 70's equipment was engineered for these fuels. I'm talking about the best way to maintain this vintage equipment and 91 octane is not a problem with it. In my 2 strokes I have run Amsoil in ratios proportionate to engine design/year. After needle bearings 64:1 and by the mid 80's 100:1. I run 40 to 50:1 in everything else. The Amsoil pre-mix 100:1 has not failed me in 33 years of use. Carbon deposits are slowly "cleaned up" and spark plugs will last a whole season with almost daily use. The cost at 64:1 Amsoil for a 6 gallon tank is still under 1 gallon of fuel ($3.50). In the old days it took $2.00 to fill your tank and a quart of oil (recommended mix ratio) cost $.40. The cost ratio oil to fuel is better today......even with Amsoil @ $8 to $9 a quart. I do what is best for me. I can't afford to constantly replace my equipment, yet I still need to follow agressive conservation/environmental practice. We drink the water from our lakes in Ontario......and its good water. The base in synthetics is actually derived from recycled livestock......ok, then don't believe me.

  25. #25

    Default Re: high test gas without Ethanol - Will it run hotter ?

    i was told to put marine grade stabil in and i should have no problems

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