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  1. #1
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    Default Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    Guys,
    I was wondering if any of you have any experience with this company. I spoke with a guy named Mark there and he seemed like a good guy with a great knowledge. I'm considering a 2002-3 Johnson 90 or 115 hp Outboard or a 90 Merc.

    Thanks d


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    Never had any dealings with bent creek but have had to repair a couple of others from differant manufacters and both were built up out of parts from 2 or 3 differant year engines. That can cause one some greif getting the right parts, so I would at lest ck that out. Are they here in Michigan?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    No, they are in Pa. but sound very reputable. They certainly say the right things. I have copied the description page below of how they rebuild Enignes.


    " The Industry (outboard remanufacturing) standard for rebuilt motors is ONLY 100 hours per outboard repair, and a loss of up to 20% power loss . Here is the problem: piston and ring seating is dependent directly on cylinder wall finish. To accomplish the proper finish, the method used is referred to as "plateau finish" .This process is how today's automobile motors go over 100,000 instead of maybe 50,000 miles like they used to. To obtain this finish in a blind hole motor (outboards) you can't use automotive machining methods. Special machines using diamond precision computer controlled hones are needed. These machines with their support equipment are a must on modern outboards, gone are the days that you can do this correctly at a dealer or in a garage. With this in mind we attempt to educate.

    For the uneducated customer who looks only for low price also gets a new friend, who? the dealer or person who is going to rebuild your engine again, to the industry standard, AGAIN..

    Blackbird, has the equipment and years of experience to offer same as New "factory power head warranty" of ONE YEAR. No other major remanufacturer offers this peace of mind.

    Now Blackbird brings you a another industry first in outboard rebuilding, Torque Plate piston fitting. This process has taken performance and reliably to the next level. Here's how it works, when a cylinder head is torqued (controlled bolting) to a motor the cylinder bore distorts to a out of round condition some times as much as .002 of a inch. Now you might think its not much, but lets put in the right perspective. A piston's capability to produce power and stay alive is a thin film of oil protecting it from the cylinder wall. This thin film of oil fits into a clearance of .0025 to .0045 thousands of a inch .To maintain this clearance it depends on the cylinder being round like the piston and rings. To do this we developed simulated heads that are torqued onto the block to simulate the stress and distortion of a assembled motor then we use our computer controlled diamond hone to fit the piston .This process gives a true fitted piston/ring with precise clearance for better lubrication, even cooling and less blow by. "

    Thanks :/


  4. #4
    Fleet Admiral WillyBWright's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    Yeah, I read that too. With a grain of salt. Especially the 50,000 mile part. Heck, I don't recall one single car I've ever bought with fewer than 50K and never had a motor go bad under 100K, even back in the 70s. Best I did was just shy of 300K on a Plymouth Voyager and the motor still ran. But that could just be marketing hype. The distortion is a valid factor. Get the details of the warranty. Otherwise, I personally never heard of them before.
    Hey, Have you seen? They make Really Cool life preservers nowadays.
    So "Looking Dorky" is no longer an excuse for not wearing one.

  5. #5
    Moderator JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    I have heard very positive things about Blackbird on another forum, Bent Creek, and from a very reliable source.

    I would trust them.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    I can buy into the out of round cylinder information. I had a 1999 Chev Silverado w/290hp V-8 vortex, w/bad piston slap at 11,000 mi that GM tried to fix w/rebuild, did not work. They ended up finding an out of round cylinder and dropped in a factory new out of the box engine. Still driving the turck w/o a problem. I said all of that to say it happens to the best.
    Like the above posts says, take a very close look at the warranty and ask them for refrences if possible.

  7. #7
    Fleet Admiral Mark42's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    I bought my '93 Evinrude 40hp from Balckbird. They also were able to supply a set of used controls and VRO tank and used prop to complete my needs. The motor ran like newl and performed well. The only part that was obviously from another year was the flywheel because it has the year of manufacture cast into it. But visually, it is the correct part.

    They shipped the complete outboard, controls, tank and used prop in a metal outboard shipping crate. I picked it up at the local FED EX depot.

    The motor was in outstanding condition when I received it. The lower unit was rebuilt, new seals, etc, pressure tested and painted. The lower unit looked like new, not bent, no knicks, no signs of corrosion.

    About two years out of warrenty, I overheated the motor by idling through some mucky water, clogged the intake and the hot alarm went off.

    After it cooled it was fine. I was told to change the head gasket, but I didn't.

    The next season, the head gasket started to leak water and it scored a cylinder badly. I called Blackbird and talked to Mike (senior) who said to ship the entire power head back to them for evaluation. They never said what the cause of the water in the cylinder was, but my guess is the leaking head gasket because one head bolt was rusted where it passed through, and head gasket failure is common after overheating.

    The motor was out of warranty, but Mike rebuilt the powerhead tested and shipped it back only for the cost of parts and shipping.

    Bottom line is they repaired an outboard they sold me outside of warranty for just parts and shipping. Can't complain.

    Overall, I am a satisfied customer and will buy from them again the next time I need an outboard motor.

    BTW, after doing the breakin proceedure and running the motor hard all last season, it still starts and runs like it should.

    1985 Bayliner 1600 Capri Cuddy, 1965 MFG Niagara Custom. >> MFG Video<<. >> MFG Project<< >>Bayliner Hard Top Project<< >>Bayliner Repower Project<<


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    There was a terrible rant about them on this forum a while back. I can't find it now because I still haven't figured out the new "Search" feature. But a quick Google search turned up this:
    "http://www.stayawayoutboardrepair.biz/" (remove the quotation marks).

  9. #9
    Supreme Mariner kenmyfam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    After reading the contents of that link I think I will stay away from them !!
    Marada 2100 Executive Series, 5 Litre V8 with Mercruiser Alpha 1 outdrive. 2007 K-Z Spree 260 RBH, all = a whole lot of family fun !!!!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    I have a problem with anyone who makes statements like the "100 hour industry standard" remark. They don't tell you how they came up with that but expect you to take it as gospel. It might be their standard but not the industry standard, that's for sure.

    If that were true, I couldn't afford to go boating. The funny thing is that if a potiental customer reads that and did believe it, I'm sure they wouldn't buy whatever it was they were looking at.

    Another staatement I have trouble with is the torque plate deal. That's not new by any stretch of the imagination. But it only works on closed deck blocks, not open decks. And you can't even put a torque plate on a blind hole (no head).

    Then they talk about pistons being round. They aren't. They're tapered, cam ground and some are barrel shaped.

    I do agree about the plateau honing, I like that finish. But that alone does not make a motor last longer in a 2 stroke. It has to do with ring seating.

  11. #11
    Fleet Admiral Mark42's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    I wan't going to post again for fear of looking like I am defending Blackbird. But if you read ALL the messages on that board, you will find out:

    1) the guy lost his suit against Blackbird. Blackbird still has an offer to refund the guys money if he returns the power head. This is the buy who BLEW 5 powerheads IN A ROW, LESS THAN 15 MINUTES ON EACH HEAD! SOUNDS LIKE A PROBLEM WITH THE BUYER, NOT THE SELLER TO ME!

    2) The guy with the broken check valves has a legit complaint, but why he doesn't ship it back is beyond me.

    3) In general, it sounds like a lot of fishermen with a few bad powerheads making a lot of noise.

    4) My warrantee was not 30 days as the guy claims. It was 90 days, (I just checked) and the balance 50/50 for the remaining 9 months.

    Blackbird, if they are as bad as reported, could never stay in business. And their buisness is mostly supplying marinas with powerheads and outboards. Not selling to the general public.

    Just my observation.
    1985 Bayliner 1600 Capri Cuddy, 1965 MFG Niagara Custom. >> MFG Video<<. >> MFG Project<< >>Bayliner Hard Top Project<< >>Bayliner Repower Project<<


  12. #12
    Fleet Admiral Mark42's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    One more thing. Blackbird has a store on e-bay called 1outboard. Feedback score 676. Almost 1000 transactions and 2 negative feedback (if I read ebay right).
    1985 Bayliner 1600 Capri Cuddy, 1965 MFG Niagara Custom. >> MFG Video<<. >> MFG Project<< >>Bayliner Hard Top Project<< >>Bayliner Repower Project<<


  13. #13
    Moderator JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    I don't know if Blackbird is one of the suppliers that iboats sells for, but it is worth noting.

    I had a problem with an item I bought through iboats and my first approach to the oem was rebuffed. I then called iboats, they called the oem, and I got a full refund.

    I don't think me being a long time moderator made any difference to iboats. I think they would do the same for any customer.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    Thanks for all your thoughts and facts. I am still a little aprehensive but I do sort of agree with Mark42 about why that guy did not return the powerhead. I read many posts regarding Blackbird in the last few days and spoke to Mark at Blackbird personnally the other day.

    Is it true that a rebuilt motor will not last too long? I'm considering a 2001/2 Johnson 90 or 115 hp from Blackbird.

    Thanks :/

    Nick

  15. #15
    Moderator JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    I see no reason why a properly rebuilt engine (NOT just overhauled) won't last as long as a new one. That, with proper care and maintenance should be 3000 to 5000 hours.

    Your only real risk is that you will start running into more and more waters that ban carbed 2 stroke engines.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    Thanks guys,
    i think I decided to go with teh 90 Etec. I found one new on crate 2006 installed with gauges and prop tested for $6,500. Do you think this is a good deal.

    Thanks
    Nickd

  17. #17
    Supreme Mariner rickdb1boat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    Sounds like a good price to me, fully rigged and all...iboats has a 2006 60 HP E-Tec and it goes for 6,199.00.....
    Rick

    "Boating is Life...All the rest is just Details"

    2007 Bentley 200 Cruise
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    yeah, I'm buying it next weekend. Everyone I talked to and comments on other forums say it's too good to pass up. Hopefully nothing goes wrong between now and then.d

  19. #19

    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    have a look at this before you buy
    Last edited by JB; April 30th, 2008 at 03:22 PM. Reason: deleted link to multiple rants.

  20. #20
    Supreme Mariner rickdb1boat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    I think posting your rant on Ebay is ridiculous. It is not a forum for your self centered use and neither is this one. And yes, I will report it. You have been making the rounds on every forum promoting your dissatisfaction with that company, but many others report far more positive experiences. Alot of your bashing is from something that happened years ago. If you were treated unfairly, then take him to court. Quit crying on the forums and act like an adult. You really need to move on..
    Rick

    "Boating is Life...All the rest is just Details"

    2007 Bentley 200 Cruise
    2007 Merc. 90 4 stroke

  21. #21
    Moderator JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackbird Industries Rebuilt Engines

    Relating your experience with a vendor is okay. Insulting attacks on the people is not and is not allowed.

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