I have just ordered a new Skeeter bay boat and have the option of a 150 Yamaha HPDI of the F150 four stroke. Which is the better engine out of the two of them? Which will require less maintance? And have there been any problems with either one. The F150 is new, should I be worried.Thanks Mark
depends on what YOU want it to do and what YOU plan to use it for,,,,each have their pluses and minuses.... im sure you know that... this thread wiill get a lil carried away with 2 stroke vs 4 stroke bashers...but in a nutshell, that hpdi is gonna be lighter and is a bitc#en motor! thats all im saying....do a search for 4 stroke vs 2 stroke... youll find tons of reading
From what I've read and heard, the F150 is the cream of the crop in fourstrokes, with not as much noticable lag as some others. The 2 stroke is an awesome motor but for all around ease of use and reliability, I would go with the 4 stroke. I kinda have the feeling that you already picked one out in your mind if your boat is already ordered, so fess up and tell us which one you like!!
Quantumleap, At this time I have no idea which engine I should put on the boat. It will take six weeks for them to build it so I have several weeks to research the two engines. Will the 150 four stroke have the same hole shot that the HPDI has or will it be slower? I would like any feedback!Thanks
Not hardly.Although you won't find Yamaha performance bulletins comparing the Skeeter Bay with HPDI and 4-stroke 150's yet, there are some other examples.For example, Yamaha compares the same exact boat, a Skeeter ZX2200, with both the HPDI 200 HP and the F200 4-stroke. Same exact prop, same exact test conditions. One exception being that with the 4-stroke, the boat is 58 lbs heavier.The 4-stroke planed the boat almost half a second faster than the HPDI (HPDI 200 = 5.615 sec. F200 = 5.145 sec). Top speed for the HPDI was only 1 mph faster than the 4-stroke....and at the expense of burning 1.5 more gallons of fuel per hour and making 6 more Db of noise. Not exactly sucking headlights out there.Now remember, unlike the 200's, the F150 is lighter than the HPDI 150. And the F150 is said to be a surprising performer (and it is). Add that to the problems a direct injection 2-stroke can give you, the enjoyment owning a 4-stroke can give you, and you have a winner with the F150. Hands down.
My F150 is still within the breakin period so I really haven't tried to squeeze the maximum speed out of it. However in short bursts of power I've been able to get it between 35-40 mph at around 4500 RPM's with boat full of fuel, 2 adults and 2 children on board. I am confident that once the motor is broken in and I burn off some fuel, it will easily top out over 40 mph. I am also very happy with the hole shot and don't feel as though I have compromised any performance in comparision to a two stroke. As other posters have indicated, I don't think you will go wrong with the F150.Kevin
h20fowl- Traditionally, 2 strokes have always had better hole shot and top end than comparable 4 strokes, but in the last couple years, yammies and suzi's are closing the gap. The only reason 4 strokes haven't taken over the market is weight. Guys like bass boaters will always go with the lightest, fastest setup, which has been, and still usually is the 2 stroke. But in the case of the 150 and 200 Yamaha's, they are about as equally matched as you can get. Forktail points out a great real-life example that is hard to argue with. I think B&WB magazine did a similar comparison a couple months back. Check it out if you can. One minor difference that I notice is the HPDI looks so cool with the high-tech cowl and the 4 stroke looks a little ordinary. Not bad, just not as racy. Just an ego thing I guess!
Turn the key on a 4 stroke and it starts.Turn the Key on that 2 stroke, feather the throttle, bump the primer. Stop. Pump the bulb again hit the key, engine races up to high rpm, smokes out the neighbor hood then stalls. Hit it again cough, lean sneeze stall. Turn the key again battery is dying it better go this time! Engine starts oh no oil buzzer goes find the oil jug. Finally ready to hit the water. What? I can’t hear you over that engine.I prefer 4-strokes. Mac
Thanks guys this makes it real easy. I will go with the four stroke. I talked to a guy on Saturday who just sold one of the Skeeter ZX20 Bay boats and he said they were running the boat at 57mph and wot. Thanks for all your help!Mark
We sell 61 to 1 HPDI's to four strokes(2003). On the larger boats four strokes burn the same amount of fuel. That the facts forktree. The v'6s weight 100 more and you can't find the correct props for four strokes. The 225 makes 218 hp on the dyno. They turn up more(RPM's). There is no comparison HPDI vs four stroke on the v-6 engines. We live on the coast here where people buy engines that preform and get the job done and its not four strokes. Maybe on alittle lake on the big pond the real men Run HPDI's (two-strokes).Four strokes need more service. I will never own a four stroke outboard. The difference I run the big hpdi's and know what you four stroke guys are missing. We haven't had one customer say they wish the had a four stoke. We have had customers take there four strokes off and put HPDI's on.
Vinney, a 150hp is 150hp no matter how you slice it. This boat is only 19'8" I really don't feel I would get anymore out of the HPDI in terms of speed and form the looks of the test that was done on the skeeter ZX22 bay both engines are equal. This is a bay boat not a 22 foot bass rig!
No so there not even close. There pulling the wool over your eyes. If you haven't run an HPDI then how can you have opinion(arm chair knowledge). The books and mags you read aren't the real deal. We installed a set of 250 HPDI's and ran them today(awsome). You can't compair them to a four stroke not in 100 years. On a big boat(26' or bigger) four stroke burn more fuel. They are heaver and turn higher RPM's to make the same horsepower than an HPDI. They don't get the job done. I said befor NOT one customer has ever had us remove there HPDI's BUT we have had customers had us remove there four stroke and put HPDI's on. I run these engines on daily basis hpdi's and four strokes. Its an apple an orange. There is book smart and real world experience. I will take the real world any day of the week. If something weights 100 lbs more how can it be the same. That doesn't make any sense. A four-stroke 225 that make 218 hp turn 500 rpms more and weights 100lbs more and burn more fuel. 250hp HPDI that makes 260 hp. Where is the logic in a four stroke Oh they require more maintance too.
We installed a set of 250 HPDI's and ran them today(awsome). You can't compair them to a four stroke not in 100 years.
That's because Yamaha doesn't make a 250 HP 4-stroke. The biggest Yamaha 4-stroke you could compare that to, would be the 225 HP.
On the larger boats four strokes burn the same amount of fuel. That the facts forktree.
Well, you better explain your "facts" a little better. Because I can show you several published performance bulletins on the exact same boat that show you're talking trash.Besides, the only HPDI's that come in shaft lengths long enough for the larger boats (30") would be the HPDI 250 and 300...two horsepower models the 4-strokes don't come in.
The v'6s weight 100 more
First of all, if you're comparing Yamaha's 225 HP HPDI to their F225, you're comparing a 20" shaft to a 25" or 30" shaft. So that comparison is bull. If you need a 30" shaft (which most of us do with bigger boats), you can get it in the F225, but in HPDI you'll have to jump up to the 250 HP to get the 30" shaft. And that HPDI will only be about 40 pounds lighter. And you're not adding in the weight of the oil reservoir, and the extra fuel capacity you'll need, etc on the HPDI's either. The HPDI 200 and F200 might be a better example with the exception that the HPDI 200 is based on the same engine as the smaller HPDI 150, and the F200 is based on the same engine as larger the F225...if you get my drift.
you can't find the correct props for four strokes.
Please. You must not realize the HPDI's have a different gear ratio than the F's.
The 225 makes 218 hp on the dyno. They turn up more(RPM's).
My local shop clocks the dyno of the F225 at 229 HP. And the higher RPM lets the outboard take advantage of running a higher gear ratio (lower gearing, more thrust, bigger props, etc.).
Maybe on alittle lake on the big pond the real men Run HPDI's (two-strokes).Four strokes need more service.
How about on the ocean where "real men" are nothing more than at the mercy of God? And HPDI's have never had a better service history than 4-strokes, sorry. Just take a look at the warranty difference. Maybe that's why you won't find one charter boat running HPDI's up here.
If something weights 100 lbs more how can it be the same.
It's not the same. With the added weight you get a pressurized lubrication system, better economy, less noise, less smoke, a better warranty, better re-sale, and most of all better reliability and durability.
Oh they require more maintance too.
And what "more maintenance" would that be? Changing the oil once a year? You'll spend more time and money changing spark plugs and messing with the oil reservoir on the HPDI. That's if you can keep it out of the shop.vinney, my Yamaha dealer is the largest Yamaha dealer in America. That's right, the largest.They stock a few HPDI's and will special order one if you want, but 4-strokes are what they primarily sell. In fact they sell more carbureted 2-strokes than HPDI's. And for good reason. The HPDI's haven't proven as reliable and durable as the 4-strokes, their break-downs are usually catastrophic, their warrantees aren't as good (gee, I wonder why), and they don't start and run worth a crap in cold water climates. Most of all, they just don't last as long.Give Factory Yamaha a call and ask them which outboard is better. I did. And they were right.
Forktree you have to get out of the house and see the real world. We buy every Two-stroke we can get our hands on (Big engines) We can't find enough engines for the demand. Have you every run an HPDI No your a four-stroke guy. My question is why? I will tell you why. THEY did a good job they convinced you to buy a clean safe outboard. A four--stroke still burns hydrocarbons too. I bet you hate suv's too. Around here you need a Big suv or a one ton with the largest engine gas/diesel available to haul your rig. The rig usually 30 feet or better. Most have two HPHI's some triples and a couple quads. All Big steam 250's and 300's. Not very many four-stroke and the guys who run them what to step up to the big steam Hpdi's. I think your boat is a reflection of your success in life. Most are self employed males who buy what they want Not what the government recomends. If you make more money you could maybe run with the big boys. Two-strokes Suck the headlight out of four-strokes. Any day any place. You need to get out more.
vinney, you sound like somebody who has recently invested a ton of money in a HPDI engine. h20foul, Go for the 4-stroke. 2-strokes are on there way out and 4-strokes are the future. Vinney, likes to debate about how great 2 stroke engines perform at top speed but how do they perform at low speeds? I especially like how 4 strokes are quiet and idle perfectly. 2 stroke engines shutter and aren't efficient at low speeds. I personally have an evinrude 200 2 stroke and it screams at full speed but I have to increase idle speed just to keep it running smoothly at low speeds. I wish I had a 4 stroke and have even contemplated getting a new boat so I can get one.
Hey guys- scroll back up to the top and re-read the question. We're talking 150's here. Let's keep the comparison on track. There are at least two recently published tests that confirm the performance difference between the F150 and HPDI is about as close as any two motors could be. The F150 is an entirely new design with the HPDI being an enhancement of the older 2 stroke v-6 design. Both are fine motors of their individual type.H20fowl- I would look at the cold hard numbers that are available from recent tests on both of these motors rather than one individual opinion. Listening to comparisons of 225's vs 250's provides no real relevent information to base your decision on. You need to focus on comparisions of the 2 motors you asked about, both of which have a lot of recent reviews, which is great for you. Good luck in your choice and enjoy!
Mharkness. I have and do. I sell and support the Best outboard ever made. I love a two-stroke and love even More the badest outboard on the planet HPDI's. Nothing is better than spooling up a big set of HPDI's They run so unbelievable. I have never seen anything put a smile on a grown mans face like a set of HPDI's rotation the planet axis. You better be holding on real tight. I herd they may out law four-strokes. I will always drive the biggest suv/truck made and I never worrie about the price of fuel.
vinney, put the crack pipe down.I own 4-strokes because they have proven to be the best. No shop talk here, just hard saltwater fishing experience. I run a fleet of commercial charter boats, plus I commercial fish and sport fish. You know, a "poor, self-employed male". LMAO. I've been there and done that with 2-strokes, HPDI's, FICHTS, etc. The only engine I haven't run is the new E-TEC. How about you?The 4-strokes have saved me money in fuel costs and maintenance. They perform better, trolling and idling effortlessly. They live longer. They are more dependable. No catestrophic failures like the HPDI's. No smoke. No hard starts or cold weather concerns. My clients like them better, and they are just plain more enjoyable to own. They've saved my life more than once. And when I'm all done with them, they're still worth something.BTW, I could care less about hydrocarbons and clean outboards. I own a F550 4X4 with a 444 cubic inch diesel, custom modified injectors, custom modified turbo, custom chipped, 5" exhaust, ram intake, etc, etc. Blows smoke like a coal burning chimney. A 1-ton? LMAO. SUV? You mean like my lifted and modified Powerstroke Excursion? LMAO. The only thing HPDI's suck is the money out of your wallet and the confidence to run 100 miles off shore. You should quit wrenching on those HPDI's and get out more vinney.