Jug of RV Antifreeze Froze

[huckle]

Just curious if anyone can explain why my jug of RV antifreeze is frozen at +10 degrees outside when it is rated for -50 protection. The jug was not dilluted with anything.

Thanks

[Alpheus]

frozen solid or slushy?

[Bob_VT]

Bad batch??? Was it a name brand?

[Mischief Managed]

The stuff will freeze at +10, it just does not expand like water does until -50, so it won't break anything.

[ENSIGN]

I've seen the -20 degree stuff freeze,Thats when we went to the -50 degree AF I think I'll put some of this in the freezer (Ya just can't trust anything these days)

[huckle]

The jug is froze solid. DOW is the maker of the antifreeze. Is their any warrenty with the product do you think?

Thanks for the input.

[Bob_VT]

I did some research and this is what I found..... Propylene glycol antifreezes are designed to provide burst protection to temperatures of -50° F or below. Ice crystals will start to form in -50 RV Antifreeze at temperatures around +10° F and will appear to be solid ice at around -10° F to -15° F. Propylene glycol based antifreezes continue to contract and will not expand until temperatures of -50° F are reached, thus providing burst protection for pipes

Call Dow if in doubt

[Gary H NC]

Holy crap! That is the brand i used on my RV!!
I would be calling Dow Chemical...
I will be checking my RV today....
Too bad i did not keep the receipts for it.

I have used that brand for several years with no problems but maybe it was a bad batch.

[Bubba1235]

Beleive it or not, undiluted (no water) antifreeze will freeze at a much warmer temp than when mixed properly. Ethylene glycol (used in most cars/trucks) freezes at 8 degrees ABOVE zero if it is not mixed with water. Freezing in this case means turns to slush, it will not "hard freeze" which means it will not expand and crack the block.

[ENSIGN]

If it froze that hard I would be draining my block and manifolds!Don't count on DOW for anything.

[Gary H NC]

This is happening to other people too...

http://www.rvusa.com/forum/mbbs22/fo...=10970&posts=3

Dow Website,
http://www.dow.com/PublishedLiteratu...romPage=GetDoc

[huckle]

So RV antifreeze can freeze solid, but when it freezes it protects against burst protection not freeze protection. In my education don't things expand when they freeze?

[Don S]

Re-read what Bob_VT posted, especially the part I highlighted in red.

I did some research and this is what I found..... Propylene glycol antifreezes are designed to provide burst protection to temperatures of -50° F or below. Ice crystals will start to form in -50 RV Antifreeze at temperatures around +10° F and will appear to be solid ice at around -10° F to -15° F. Propylene glycol based antifreezes continue to contract and will not expand until temperatures of -50° F are reached, thus providing burst protection for pipes

Call Dow if in doubt

[huckle]

Called Dow and they told me to call Wal-Mart for product support. They said they don't have any information to provide. WEIRD...Like they are wiping their hands clean of any problems. I asked what do I do if my engine is shot. They said that is for Wal-Mart to handle, not DOW.

Anyway Thanks for the replies. Everything is pointing to don't worry about it until it gets -50 outside, then worry

[Snobike Mike]

It's not the freezing that's the problem, it's the EXPANDING that cracks your block.

As noted, the EXPANSION of the antifreeze doesn't occur until -50 so you're good.

[smokingcrater]

Beleive it or not, undiluted (no water) antifreeze will freeze at a much warmer temp than when mixed properly. Ethylene glycol (used in most cars/trucks) freezes at 8 degrees ABOVE zero if it is not mixed with water. Freezing in this case means turns to slush, it will not "hard freeze" which means it will not expand and crack the block.

I've had regular car antifreeze turn slushy on me before in really cold weather. It saved the engine, nothing burst, but I nearly overheated also. Slush doesn't exactly pump through a standard water pump very well!

[marc c]

I've had regular car antifreeze turn slushy on me before in really cold weather. It saved the engine, nothing burst, but I nearly overheated also. Slush doesn't exactly pump through a standard water pump very well!

That's why they don't recomend a stronger than 70% Antifreeze/Water mixture for automobile antifreeze.

[Lou C]

It sounds like that's what's to be expected based on what the manufacturer says....I tried this with a jug of -60 stuff at zero in the freezer and the same thing happened...not real comfortable with this being in an engine all winter so I use the more epensive -100 stuff...that stays liquid way down to at least -50 so there ain't now way you will ever have a problem with it...expensive but I don't have to think about it all winter....

[Bond-o]

not real comfortable with this being in an engine all winter so I use the more epensive -100 stuff...

Ayuh,.... The stuff I use is Free,+ won't Freeze at even -200°,.... Celsius, or Fahrenheit...
It don't Expand either,....

Air just Don't Freeze......

[elkhunter338]

I basically use the free stuff too.
Drain engine/manifold/cooler, dump some old used car 50/50 mixture antifreeze in engine/manifold/cooler and then redrain the antifreeze out.
Zero cost and if there is some water left over it gets mixed with the antifreeze then drained back out. My area only gets to about -15 to -20 so I should be in great shape.
Free is a good price.

[wca_tim]

here's the deal...

50 50 antifreeze / water freezes at a much lower temperature... so mix it with water and you're good to go...

[northernmerc]

here's the deal...

50 50 antifreeze / water freezes at a much lower temperature... so mix it with water and you're good to go...

That would apply to automotive antifreeze, not to the RV type that most put in their boats. Do not mix the RV antifreeze with water!

Several people have already explained the situation above. RV antifreeze will crystallize/solidify at a temperature well above its rated protection point. But it should not burst anything as it does not expand when it solidifies.

If you really want to test this, fill a glass jar (not a plastic container) completely to the top with RV antifreeze, seal the lid well and put it in your freezer. If the glass breaks, let us know. The glass is more fragile than your engine block and will break if the antifreeze expands.

[HT32BSX115]

here's the deal...

50 50 antifreeze / water freezes at a much lower temperature... so mix it with water and you're good to go...

Listen to this guy above..........he knows exactly what he's talking about!!!It's the solution of glycol + water that doesn't doesn't freeze......


Yeah.....This is just physics and chemical engr!


If this stuff DID freeze when mixed at 50/50, think how many cracked blocks there would be in the Midwest and Fairbanks AK............RIGHT NOW!!!


Cheers,


Rick

[northernmerc]

Why does this need to be so confusing? To put it simply, there are two basic types of antifreeze under discussion here.

One is RV/marine antifreeze, which normally is used as is, without adding water. It crystallizes or freezes but does not expand. One should not add water if one wants to maintain maximum protection. Adding water will compromise the protection level. If you doubt any of this, see: http://www.peakantifreeze.com/rvmarine.htm

The second type is automotive antifreeze, such as ethylene glycol antifreeze. Unless that type is bought premixed with water and ready to use, one should add water to it according to the formula provided by the manufacturer. By the way, a 50/50 automotive antifreeze mix is not enough for colder climates. The solution should include 60 to 65% antifreeze if living in some areas of Canada and Alaska. Adding more than that can cause the mixture to gel when it gets really cold.

[HT32BSX115]

To put it simply, there are two basic types of antifreeze under discussion here.

One is RV/marine antifreeze, which normally is used as is, without adding water.

Well,

I don't think it can be explained that simply.



Both types of antifreeze are used diluted.

One is propylene glycol. The other is ethylene glycol.


Ethylene glycol is most commonly used in automotive cooling systems. (but it is toxic to animals) Usually sold approx 80-95% pure form. (the other components are anti-corrosion compounds etc)

Propylene glycol is commonly used in "RV" applications because it is far less (or essentially non) toxic. It's also commonly sold in a pre-diluted (50:50, 60:40 etc) form.

If you want to know the characteristics,

Click the following links....One of my favorite sites!

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/et...col-d_146.html

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pr...col-d_363.html

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/et...col-d_904.html


Cheers,


Rick