I am completely new to boating, and I recently bought this motor, and in hindsight it was a bad purchase. I am now trying to make the best of that decision by treating this as an opportunity to learn about outboard motor maintenance. If this learning exercise doesn't go well, I will take the motor to a local shop but I am trying to minimize my losses at this point in time. Please bare with me, I have read through many of the threads on this site and other sites so I would classify myself as a wise fool at this point in time, I know a lot about nothing :-)
Issue 1 - Steering mechanism not working
I am not able to move the tiller left\right, it is stuck in one position (straight ahead). I looked around for a lever but I was not able find one, and I am worried about applying too much pressure and breaking something. Is there a lever that I am just missing?
Issue 2 - Motor is not starting
I am going to buy some new spark plugs tomorrow [NGK (5110) B7HS Standard Spark], are these the right ones?
I suspect that I will spend quite a bit of time on this issue but the plugs is the obvious first step with a carb cleaning being the next (I will need some guidance on that one)
Well, thanks in advance for your help
Last edited by Rodneybr; February 3rd, 2011 at 03:15 AM.
Reason: adding some more pictures
Issue 1: look for a bolt under the powerhead at the front of the engine, if there is one turn it to the right to loosen the steering.There's probably a grease fitting on the swivel bracket that might need greasing.
Issue 2: Have you checked for spark and done a compression check? That motor has points under the flywheel and you'll need a puller to remove it (an automotive harmonic balancer puller will work).
A manual will help for sure - especially for setting points and changing the impeller (Nr. 3 on your list)
The sparkplug gap is 30 thou. and the points - set at the high point on the cam are 20 thou. the recommended plugs are J4J Champions.
I was not able to find a screw that loosens the steering. The only thing I found was a screw that is used for putting lubricant in the steering column. It has no impact on the tension on the actual column. I believe the steering mechanism must be in a "locked" or blocked position since I believe that I provided enough force to break the seal of any dried grease\fluid. The engine tilt lever isn't working either, There is a lever just left of the fuel hose in the front view picture that only has about 1/2 inch of play. I have looked at the entire mechanism and nothing appears to be bent/broken/missing but I am able to tilt the motor. I am scared of providing too much force and breaking something. This could be related to the steering mechanism not working. There is an L shape bracket that I am assuming is the track for the tilt mechanism, and the engine is currently sitting at the elbow of the bracket. Is it suppose to be on the front portion of the bottom of the L bracket? It has about a 1/4 inch play that is gated by the top portion of the elbow of the bracket.
Issue 2: Motor not starting
I have done nothing with Issue 2 yet. Apparently J4J champion is not sold anymore and J4C Champions is the recommended replacement (please confirm).
Issue 3: New Impeller
I will tackle this one once I am able to get the engine started. I have seen a video on You Tube that should be a great resource to leverage
I should have the manual in hand by Thursday so I should be able to asked more informed questions. I am also embarassed by my level of ignorance here.
side%20view%20no%20cover.jpgSorry, the old manual says J4J which is now J4C; the motor will only tilt up in forward gear and then you might see the co-pilot steering bolt. I would check the impeller first and replace it before running engine in water. I think that the L shaped lever is the tilt lock but you have to tilt the engine up to use it
there should be a tensioner screw for the left right movement, it may also be that you got a motor which was never lubed in that area.
as far as starting
(a) suggest squirting a touch of penetrating or two stroke oil in the cylinders 1st then
(b) do you have spark at all?
(c) if you do have spark is it on both cylinders or just one?
(d) ok have spark and carb not pumping fuel? you can get it to pop a bit by damping a rag with gasoline and covering the carb with it, this will NOT provide lubrication but should allow it to pop.
(e) suggest compression test
I would suggest you start with do you have spark, then we will work on the next part as it comes.
I got the tilt mechanism working, it just needed me to apply addition manpower and some understanding of how it actual works. ps, The engine does not need to be in gear (forward) for the tile mechanism to work (Thank You, a small success but a success none the less)
I was not able to get the steering mechanism working. I have searched thoroughly and I have not identified the issue. I applied additional manpower and it did not budge. I am now convinced that there is a screw/leverl that I am just not finding... Does anyone out there own this year and model?
Issue 2: Engine not starting
Manaul should arrive tomorrow
Compression tester will arrive tomorrow
Spark tester arrive arrive on Friday
I have the new spark plugs, the old ones had some rust and black sludge on them. I am thinking this is a bad thing.
What tools do I need to clean/rebuild the carb?
Issue 3: Impeller check
I will take care of this over the weekend once I have the manual in hand.
This probem still exist, I have made absolutely no progress getting the steering mechanism to work.
Issue 2: Engine not started
I was able to get her started after verifying that I had a spark. Success!!!!
I only ran the engine for about 30 seconds after I got it started, I did not see any water flowing from the engine. I wasn't able to consistently start the engine so there is still some work to be done. The engine did not idle well at all, and I had to turn the throttle slight past start to get it to start
Question : Is it safe to assume the compression is good now that I have got the engine to start?
Question : Do you recommend still rebuilding the carb?
Question : What problems can I rule out now that I was able to get the motor started?
Question : What are your recommended next steps?
Issue 3: Engine not "peeing" (Impeller)
I will do the impeller check tomorrow, and let you know what I see. I have the manual and a video so I'll see how wit goes.
Question : Where should the water come from?
Quesion : How much of the bottom portion must be submerged in water?
I would still do a compression test. Motor may start, and can seemingly run fine on one cylinder. A compression test will tell a lot.
As for the steering issue, there is not a "lock" on the motor, so whatever is hanging up is likely a corrosion issue on the co-pilot or in the swivel bracket. The co-pilot is the disc at the top of the swivel that has a plate with rubber pads riding against it. That plate has a bolt that acts as a tensioner to give more or less friction. If the disc is corroded, it may prevent the swivel from turning.
Not advised to run a motor with a bad waterpump as bits of a broken pump can circulate through the cooling system - that's why it was recommended you deal with that before attempting to run your motor. Broken waterpump pieces can cause blockages in the cooling system.
If your motor has a hose exiting the rear of the cylinder block and attached to a fitting in the belly pan, then that is where the pisser will exit. If no hose, then no pisser, and you should be looking for a misting of water coming out the exhaust relief holes below the rear of the pan.
Lower unit should be fully submerged, maybe 3 or 4 inches above the seam between the lower unit and exhaust housing.
After confirmation in the last post that there is no locking mechanism, I went and applied a lot more manpower, and I was able to slowly able to get a small amount of movement. I sprayed some WD 40 to the area, and worked it until I was able to get little more movement. I eventually got full movement but it was still very very very stiff. I applied some more WD 40 and continue working the motor back and forth. Right beneath the power there is a "guide rail" for the steering mechanism; i applied WD 40 on that track and move the engine back and forth. I also sprayed the WD 40 around the neck. There is a small screw hole for lubricant, and I sprayed WD 40 in there too.
It was quite a workout, I broke out a full sweat in 45 degree weather :-) I continued working it until I could move it with 1 hand with a reasonable amount of force, I started out with a full body effort. I gave it a final soaking of WD 40, and I will let it sit for the night and work it again some more.
Thank you for helping me solve the first issue!
Issue 2 : Motor not starting (partially fixed)
It is not idling correctly
Not starting consistently
Requires the throttle to be slightly past start to start
I am holding off on addressing this issue until I check the impeller
Issue 3: Need to check the impeller (no visible sign of water leaving the engine aka peeing)
Do I need to remove the propeller to gain access to the impeller? The manual that I have is for a lower unit service/rebuild and the first step is removing the prop but I am not sure if I need to remove the prop if all I am going to do is check the impeller?
I removed the two nuts that I believe that are holding the bottom unit together but I don't know how to actually take the two apart?
Nuts removed : 1 right above the prop and 1 above the lower unit (mid shaft) [Please confirm these were the right bolts to remove]
A general problem that I am seeing is the fact that most of these parts have not been removed in years so getting them apart is non trivial. I don't want to break something forcing it apart so I need confirmation that force is what's needed (not unscrewing or removing another nut)
Issue 4: Need to check compression
Do I need to get the engine running before checking compression? All the instructions says run the engine for 5-10 minutes then begin the compression testing steps
re Issue 3, no, you shouldn't have to remove the prop to work on the water pump. Your manual should specify the bolts that have to be removed. If not, check an on-line parts supplier and look for the diagram for your motor. On my Merc 15 (90's model) there are 3 bolts holding on the lower leg - 2 on either side of the lower unit towards the back (pointing up), and one on the front (pointing down). On mine, the top of the shifter shaft has to be disconnected (under the block - near carb) before you can drop the lower unit.
Once you get the lower leg off, check all of the water pump, including impeller, housing, and base plate. If there's any grooves, cracks, or damage on the plates & housing, you should change them out.
I checked my manual Seloc Mercury 1 and 2 cylinder Outboards 1965-1989 1404 (section 9-26) and I have removed the 2 nuts holding the lower unit in place. TYPE "B" lower unit.
At this point one of the nuts is completely removed (the one facing down directly above the prop), and the second nut has been loosened awaiting the bottom unit to drop a little so the nut can be completely removed.
Do you have any recommendations on seperating the two? Use a screwdriver to pry the two apart? use a soft mallet? etc.
Is there a gear the engine is supposed to be in? My manual instructs me to put the engine in forward gear (and it is in forward gear currently)
I had that problem with mine, too. I used a rubber mallet - gently on the cavitation plate. After I had it removed, I heard here that others used some wooden wedges - I believe they used them between the flanges on the mid section, and the 2 side edges of the cavitation plate. I wouldn't use a screw driver as it may focus the pressure too much in one spot - that material is not very strong.
As an FYI - the "START" position on the tiller is a loose guide at best. 40+ years of use, backyard fixes and general wear & tear can lead to slop in the linkages. START wasn't a set and true position even when new. I almost always set the throttle against the neutral stop when starting. I say almost, because some motors are happier with less throttle, but it seems to help most of them...
Issue 2 : Engine not starting (partially fixed) [See my previous]
Issue 3 : Impeller check (done)
I was able to the bottom unit off with a rubber mallet. Getting to the impeller was pretty straight forward after that. The impeller is in good shape. I foound two issues that could have been the root cuause for the engine not peeing. The copper water intake was blocked with some soft material (cloth like) so it probably couldn't bring water into the system. The water tube on the impeller housing was also blocked with the same substance. I cleaned out both, and I will attempt to start the engine again, and see if any water is flowing.
Here is something concerning : I also found 2 small metal chunks in the exhaust housing. I did not find any damage parts in the lower unit so something must be damaged in the head. This one scares me, and will probably drive me to get a professional since I don't feel qualified to take that much of the engine apart. I probably shouldn't start the engine again until I identified the source of those metal chunks huh? damn!!!
Issue 4: Compression test on both cylinders
Will do after I get the engine back in the "test tank" and verify water is flowing
Good work. I haven't tried this, but you can test the water pump with the lower unit off by attaching a drill to the drive shaft. Were the base plate and pump housing in good condition?
Post a close-up photo of the metal chunks if possible. There are some amazing detectives on here that may be able to identify them. Better not to run it again until you have an idea of what they could be.
I just got around to checking compression and both cyclinders have compression over 100 so I am going to declare victory for now (I will take her for a run this weekend and let you know how it goes)
I was about to purchase the stop button on eBay but the cost surprised me ($20 + $17 shipping). I thought this was pretty steep. I did some searching here in my local area, and I found a guy selling a similar 9.8 110 for $150 so I bought it (see photo). At a minimum I will use it for parts but I am hopeful to get her running too
I have done all things that you told me to do with the 1967
Check for spark (passed)
Check compression done (passed)
New spark plugs (completed)
Check impeller before starting the engine (completed but check failed)
I fully inspected the entire water pump, it had minor debree and one of the blades on the impeller was damaged. I ordered a new impeller, and I installed it today but I ran into an issue reassembling the impeller housing. I am not able to get the water pump face plate to sit cleanly on the water pump base. The base is butting up against the shaft (see attached picture). Reading section Seloc Mercury 1 and 2 cylinder Outboards 1965-1989 1404 (section 9-42) mentions something about shimming. I need to be enlightened, do I need shim and what should I be shimming with? I did verify that the face place seats cleanly when the shaft is not in the way. I can get it to sit clean in the the middle of shaft but I can't get is seated in the correct spot on the shaft.
Another question : What is your recommendation for a multipurpose lubricant
I took the 67 motor out for a test run yesterday and she ran like a champ but the flow of water was not consistent (or not as strong) as I was seeing in the test tank. When I first got her in the water it was strong and consistent with what I was seeing in the tank but it dwindle to a trickle. I put the motor in neutral and played with the throttle for a while, and I was able to get a flow again. I put it back in forward and it kept a weak flow going. I plan to take the lower unit off again, and look around some more for anything that could impact the flow.
1972 (not sure about the year)
Any help here would be greatly appreciate, I don't know how to start addressing the current problem ("Water pump face plate not sitting cleanly in the waterpump housing")
the original post has been edited to contain photos to the currrent set of issues.
Gentlemen, if I violated any rules then please let me know, and I will do my best to make it right. I'm really appreciative of the help that I have already received, and I still need a little bit more.
1972 ) I need some advice on how to proceed with not being able to put water pump pack together. I can not get the face plat to sit cleanly.