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  1. #1
    Seaman No show's Avatar
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    Default Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Ive installed a 1977 350 small block That was done over with roller rockers. Replacing a 1986 Mercruiser 350 260 HP 5.7 .
    We did have a flywheel issue which we straightened out.
    We have two more hurdles to do
    number one , We are taking everything off the old motor and installing on the 77 motor ,we were a little boggled setting in the distributor, we set the number one cylinder on TDC then tried to put on distributor,Which from standing by flywheel side we want the rotor to point to the #1 cyl, which seems to want to point to the #6 Cyl . Inside the dist you can see a #1 but the cap when lined up correctly with the little tab it has on the distributor will say different than #1 .
    I am a little confused .
    Also If the roller rockers need to be adjusted and they cant be adjusted till the motor is fired up ,You can't put the valve covers on with exhaust manifolds on which also support the throttle linkage . What a snowball affect!
    Does anyone know how to adjust first so we can fisish the job?
    Thank you

  2. #2
    Fleet Admiral HT32BSX115's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Howdy,

    Well modifying an engine does have it's unintended consequences huh?

    You may have to put it together and leave the valve covers off so you can adjust everything then pull the manifolds to put them back on. I'd leave the manifold gaskets off so I didn't have to crush them. Running without gaskets isn't going to hurt anything temporarily.

    I'm assuming that you contacted Crane/Isky/Crower/etc or whomever manufactured the cam/rollers to ask them about an acceptable alternate adjustment procedure?


    Regards,


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  3. #3
    Seaman No show's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    no, I didn't contact any company about rockers, I kinda figured I was gonna have to do it that way, assemble then dissasemble then reassemble. This job is really getting to be a pain in th arse

  4. #4
    Supreme Mariner bruceb58's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    If you can get your hands on some old valve covers, you can cut the tops off them and use those to prevent oil from rolling down into the bilge
    1998 Wellcraft Eclipse 24 Cuddy
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  5. #5
    Supreme Mariner bruceb58's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Quote Originally Posted by No show View Post
    Inside the dist you can see a #1 but the cap when lined up correctly with the little tab it has on the distributor will say different than #1 .
    I am a little confused .
    I am now confused! Bottom line...the rotor needs to point to the wire that goes to #1 spark plug. Make sure you are on the top of the compression stroke when you are at TDC and not the top of the exhaust stroke. otherwise, you will be 180 degrees off on the distributor.
    1998 Wellcraft Eclipse 24 Cuddy
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    As mentioned above,
    Make sure you are on the compression stroke on #1 cylinder - then line up the 0 timing mark to the grove/line on the harmonic balancer - that ensures you are perfectly at TDC.
    Once that is done you should be able to manipulate the distributor housing, rotor/distributor shaft, oil pump shaft, etc to get the rotor to point "where ever" you want it to.
    Like you mentioned No Show, you want the specific cap/plug wire to line up with the rotor: Basically set the distributor down in with the cap on to determine where you want the rotor housing/cap positioned. Then pull the cap off and proceed to raise the dist housing, turn rotor as applicable, then set back down until the rotor is pointing at #1 cap terminal etc. Obviously, during these adjustments you may have to turn the oil pump rod to facilitate the distributor fully seating on the block.



    Roller rockers. I have no idea what setup you have yet if they are hydraulic they really should not require adjustment while running. I've run many a hydraulic and solid lifter variety and only on the rarest of occasions did I adjust while running. Good suggestion was to call your lifter manufacturer and ask yet if they are hydraulic, 1/4 - 1/2 turn past zero lash is usually all you need on a small block. Setting them prior to running just takes a little patients and a methodical process.

    Good luck

  7. #7
    Seaman No show's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    I believe I got it on TDC, Now to deal with roller rocker adjustment, Ive been reading some material on this but I don't know what I have hydraulic or what , my friend is still breaking my balls over buying this motor, I'm a part changer. Not a mechanic I think I went in too deep on this one, I have to depend on myself on this one not my expert mechanic brother. It really sucks knowing he can do this with no problem. but I don't want him to bail me out on this one.
    Does anyone know how to tell what I have ? I tried to call the SOB that sold it to me but he doesn't awnser.
    They should sell BOATFAX!!!!!!!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Exaust manifolds arent supposed to support anything.
    Can you post a pic

  9. #9
    Supreme Mariner bruceb58's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Quote Originally Posted by No show View Post
    I believe I got it on TDC...
    But do you have it on the CORRECT TDC?
    1998 Wellcraft Eclipse 24 Cuddy
    Volvo Penta Duo-Prop 7.4L "LK"

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  10. #10
    Seaman No show's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Well on portside I believe the spark box attaches to exhaust elbow and on starbord I believe the throttle linkage bracket mounts to Exhaust elbow or maybe there called risors. I will post pictures tomorrow morning of Rockers and positoin of distributor
    thanks

  11. #11
    Rear Admiral JustJason's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    are you trying to point the rotor to the actual cylinder itself???

    Try it again... your out somewhere. You may have to stick a screwdriver down the hole to get the oil pump rod lined up.

    If that fails... you can always put #6 on TDC compression stroke and start from 6 and work your way around the cap.
    just because you found it that way... doesn't mean it's supposed to be that way.

    Part of diagnostics is spending time figuring out not only what the problem is, but also sorting through what it isn't.

    The older the engine is, the chances of it having more than 1 problem goes up exponentially

    Boating has always been a rich mans hobby. Buying a new boat gets cheaper every year, but the maintenance, the repairs, and the overall cost of ownership of a boat has never gotten any cheaper.

  12. #12
    Chief Petty Officer picklenjim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Pull #1 spark plug.Hold your finger over the hole.Turn over engine by hand in the correct running rotation.When you feel it starting to make compression look at the timing marks on the harmonic balancer and bring the mark to line up at 0.#1 is now at TDC in firing position.Put cap on distributer and decide which terminal you want as #1.Take a marker and make a mark on the distributer base in line with #1 terminal on the cap.Remove cap.Drop in distributor with rotor facing front of engine.Adjust oil pump drive shaft with a long screwdriver if needed for distributor to drop all the way in.Turn dist. base to line up your mark with the rotor.As far as adjusting your roller rockers they can and must be adjusted be fore start up.You need to determine if you have solid lifters or hydraulic lifters.Hydraulic lifters is what you would want in a boat beings solid lifters need frequent adjustments and you would have to remove your exhaust all the time to do that.To adjust hydraulic lifters remove all spark plugs.Put the engine in #1 firing position.Go to #1 intake and exhaust rockers.One at a time hold the push rod between thumb and for finger.Tighten the rocker nut until all the up and down play is just removed.Now tighten the nut 3/4 more.That's where it should be.Do the other one on that cyl. the same.Now look at your firing order.Go to the next cyl.in firing order.Turn over the engine slowly with a screwdriver in the spark plug hole to feel when the piston is at top.It won't be far.Now set these 2 rockers.Go to next cyl. in firing order and turn engine until that piston is up.Set them and continue until all are done.I never set valve lash with hydraulic lifters on a running engine.Once set they are set for life.Just like factory.If you have solid lifters get rid of them.If you have the intake off make sure the hydraulic lifters are pumped full of oil.Remove them and one at a time sumerge them in a coffee can with oil in it.Take a push rod and seat it in the lifter and press down hard to remove all the air and suck in oil.Pump several times till it becomes solid and no more air bubbles come out.Be sure to lube tips of push rods and rocker arms well.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Push down on the push rod ends of your rocker arms. If you can push the plunger in the top of the lifter, you have hydraulics. If none of them move up and down you have solid lifters.

  14. #14
    Captain MikDee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Ok, Now listen close the small block V8 has both cyl #1, & cyl #6, at top dead center at the same time, when the crank timing mark is at TDC. The camshaft determines which one is going to fire at that time. You must adjust your valves first!

    Here's how, with the crank set on TDC, go to the valves on cyl #1, and take up all the slack on the rockers, till you can't spin the pushrod, Then go to cyl #6, and do the same thing. Now, this is very important, look at both sets of valves, and see which one of the sets is matching in alignment (meaning, both rockers are at the same angle, & flush top, & bottom) one set should look abit off of alignment,,, and the other set should look perfectly aligned, That set is the one that has the valves completely closed, and is ready to fire, whether it be cyl #1, or cyl #6. Once you've determined which cylinder it is, make a mental note of it, and loosen up the rockers on the opposite cylinder that you just snugged up so you don't get coil bind.

    Now, there is a procedure for snugging up the rest of the rockers once you find which cylinder is truely at TDC (I don't have it memorized, but it should be in a service manual, either auto, or marine) maybe someone here can help out with this,,, But, either way, you can now put your distributor in with the rotor facing whatever cylinder is at TDC now.

    Finally, after you adjust all the rockers that go with that particular cylinder being at TDC according to the procedure,,, Then next, give the engine 1 turn clockwise to TDC again, and adjust the remainder of the rockers according to that procedure, snugging up as I previously described.

    Hence, your valves will be temporarily adjusted for running, and your distributor will be set!

    After dropping in many small block Chevy distributors, I learned a little trick I use all the time. What I do is, once the crank is on TDC, I drop the dizzy in with the rotor about where it should go, if it's not close enough, I pull the dizzy back up some, But Not All The Way! Just enough to move the rotor clockwise a smidge, and drop it back in, it usually moves the oil pump gear, & drops back in a bit further clockwise to line up,,, If I have to, I do this as many times as I need. If when you drop the dizzy in, it is past the point where you need it, Then I usually pull the dizzy back up some, & give the rotor, 1/2 a turn (180*) clockwise, then drop it back in where it wants to go, and move it clockwise using this procedure, one tooth at a time, until I get it where I want it.

    Good Luck, I'll see if I can find that cold valve adjustment procedure.
    89'-19' Bayliner Capri Ski boat, with a 125hp Force
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  15. #15
    Captain MikDee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    The First thing you must do, is adjust your valves as I said, so that you can determine which cylinder is set to fire according to the cam timing (Or, to make sure the cylinder you're setting your valves at is on it's compression stroke, not it's exhaust stroke!)

    Here you go, an edited version of the Mercruiser manual

    Valve Adjustment

    Engine in No. 1 position.

    2. Adjust the following valves:
    MCM and MIE Left-Hand (Standard) Rotation Engines
    Exhaust - 1-3-4-8 Intake - 1-2-5-7

    3. Loosen adjusting nut until lash is felt at push rod, and then tighten adjusting nut until all
    lash is removed. Lash can be checked by moving push rod up and down while tightening
    adjusting nut until all play is removed.

    4. Hydraulic lifters can be adjusted by tightening adjustment nut an additional one turn (360
    degrees). No other adjustment is required.

    5. Crank engine one revolution until pointer 0 mark and torsional damper mark are again
    in alignment. This is No.6 firing position. With engine in this position, the following valves
    may be adjusted as previously outlined.
    MCM and MIE Left-hand (Standard) Rotation Engines
    Exhaust - 2-5-6-7 Intake - 3-4-6-8


    Disclaimer: As per number 4 above, I personally like to set my valves at 1/2 turn down from zero lash, once everything is hot, & broken in.
    89'-19' Bayliner Capri Ski boat, with a 125hp Force
    My Previous Boats http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ee/My%20Boats/
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  16. #16
    Seaman No show's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    I'm going to try to call the guy who sold me the motor again today to see what I have .
    Here are the pictures of the dist mark on the pully and where the direction the rotor is pionting . Also picture of screwdriver in #1 Cyl on TDC. Also picture of Roller rockers to determine hydraulic or solid.






  17. #17
    Rear Admiral JustJason's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Something looks way out there. See the little lugs on the back of the distro? The ones that the red and green striped wires go to on the pickup.... Usually those lugs are facing towards the rear of the motor, not facing to the right. Pull the shaft out, make sure your on #1 TDC COMPRESSION stroke (hook up a battery and put your thumb over the hole and bump it until you feel pressure, then wrench it the rest of the way up) And try it again.
    just because you found it that way... doesn't mean it's supposed to be that way.

    Part of diagnostics is spending time figuring out not only what the problem is, but also sorting through what it isn't.

    The older the engine is, the chances of it having more than 1 problem goes up exponentially

    Boating has always been a rich mans hobby. Buying a new boat gets cheaper every year, but the maintenance, the repairs, and the overall cost of ownership of a boat has never gotten any cheaper.

  18. #18
    Captain MikDee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Unless you have your valves set like I said, you have no way of telling when cyl #1 comes to TDC, if it's on it's compression stroke or exhaust stroke?

    Actually, another way to tell is, if you can see the timing gears, when the little punch marks line up on the gears, the engine is usually set to fire on cyl #6

    Turning the crankshaft 1 full turn clockwise from above, and lining up the timing marks on the top of both gears, in a straight imaginary line down through them, the engine is set to fire on cyl #1

    Either way, at this point, you can drop the distributor in, with the rotor facing the terminal on the distributor cap, of the respective cylinder that's at TDC.
    89'-19' Bayliner Capri Ski boat, with a 125hp Force
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Looks like you have a set of Comp Cams "roller tip" rockers with "locking nuts".

    "Locking" retainer nuts like those are typically used on solid lifter/cams - they can be used on hydraulic lifters though not required.

    So lifter/cam type still a question.

    Pushing on the rocker "push rod" may give you the answer (springy feel), yet if the lifters were primed properly there could be little to no movement.

    **Good info on processes above. Yet if you have never done this before you may want to suck it up and seek additional assistance. Zero lash requires a delicate "feel" and one can easily crank down a dry hydraulic lifter until it bottoms out thinking you haven't reached "zero" etc. That will just prolong your pain or hit you in the wallet.


    ALSO.... Was the motor assembled when you got it?? Their probably already adjusted... But I would probably check them regardless.

    Good luck!

  20. #20
    Seaman No show's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    thanks All
    I removed roller rockers used stock off old engine for less bull

    JimmyNoShow

  21. #21
    Chief Petty Officer Mkos1980's Avatar
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    I use those rocker nuts on all my builds with Hyd cams. Makes it easy to adjust. I adjust all my valves with the motor running though. You can accually adjust the valves by hand. Thats how easy those nuts screw down with the motor running.
    90 Chaparral 2150SX 350 MAG Alpha 1
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Timing and Adjusting Roller Rockers 350 SB 5.7

    Is this engine actually a marine motor, or is it an automotive engine? There are some minor differences, specifically the head gasket has no steel in it, and the freeze plugs in the block are brass. The cam also typically has a different profile, though truck cams work OK.
    1993 Rinker FiestaVee 300
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