Pertronix on AQ125 help

[JohnVH]

I put the electronic conversion on my engine tonight, now it wont start, it ran fine with the points, any idea's? Itll pop and start for a second tops, but wont run.

Help.

[Brucetafer]

reset your timing...

[JohnVH]

reset your timing...

I advanced and retarded the distributor, that's how I got it to pop. Otherwise nothing. Should I have to pull the distributor to reset the timing?

[thumpar]

Did you run a full 12v line to the pertronics unit? I know on most units the coil sees a reduced voltage after the starter in disengaged and that feeds the ignition.

[bruceb58]

I advanced and retarded the distributor, that's how I got it to pop. Otherwise nothing. Should I have to pull the distributor to reset the timing?

No you shouldn't.

Pull your coil wire and hold it next to ground to see if you are getting a spark. If you are, use your timing light while cranking the engine to set your timing.

[generator12]

John,

You don't mention the engine make or type, so we can't be sure of the wiring you have.

If it begins to run when you turn the key and stops when you let go, it is likely that you have the following condition:

1. The system has an external resistance wire to the coil to prevent its overheating in normal operation.
2. If this is the case, the system is designed so that when the ignition key is in "start" position, this external resistance is bypassed to provide maximum spark during the starting operation. When the engine starts and you let the key return to "run", the external resistance is back into the circuit, reducing the voltage to the "plus" terminal of the coil.
3. If you have wired the Pertronix unit by connecting to the coil "plus" terminal (as instructed by Pertronix), then you're running it with reduced voltage the moment you release the key. THIS WILL NOT WORK. The Pertronix setup require all of twelve volts to operate correctly.

You can check this by running a jumper from a solid 12-volt source - the positive terminal on the battery for example - to the coil "plus" and starting the engine. If it continues to run after you release the key, the problem is the voltage drop due to the external resistance wire.

Shut down after no longer than a minute of run-time (to protect the coil) and do the following:

A) Disconnect the Pertronix wire from the coil "plus" terminal. Leave everything else as is.
B) Install a new wire from the ignition switch to this Pertronix wire - splice it directly - so that the Pertronix will have full twelve volts in its operating mode as well as the "start" mode. (This should be at least 16 gauge wire.)
C) Ensure that the ground wire from the distributor is, in fact, well-grounded.

This will enable the Pertronix to perform properly. You should then check/adjust the ignition timing with a light (as recommended in the Pertronix instructions) since you have altered it by the installation procedure.

Good luck buddy.

[JohnVH]

Did you run a full 12v line to the pertronics unit? I know on most units the coil sees a reduced voltage after the starter in disengaged and that feeds the ignition.

I did actually, that didnt change anything either.

No you shouldn't.

Pull your coil wire and hold it next to ground to see if you are getting a spark. If you are, use your timing light while cranking the engine to set your timing.

I know I have spark as it will try to start, it almost is like the distributor is off a tooth, but in the origional position where it ran great before, it wont even try.

I had a timing light on it, and cant see any timing marks when it flashes for some reason.

Generator12,
sorry, I have a AQ125a volvo penta 4 cylinder in an 84 bayliner.

The paper it comes with recommends doing a 12v jumper so I did that too, no luck yet.

[bruceb58]

Did you pull the distributor to install the pertronix unit? I would still do the test I mentioned to see how good the spark is.

[JohnVH]

Did you pull the distributor to install the pertronix unit? I would still do the test I mentioned to see how good the spark is.

No, I went by the directions, pulled the points, put the new parts in, wired it up, now it wont run. But it acts like its really far off timing wise, just a guess...

[thumpar]

Have you double checked the firing order is correct?

[JohnVH]

Have you double checked the firing order is correct?

I shouldnt have to, it runs great when it has points in it... I never changed the firing order.

I called Pertronix, they said to ground the distributor/block better, so I guess Ill run some new grounds after work today, I would have thought that since it ran before, it would run better now, guess not....

[JohnVH]

Ran a ground wire to the distributor, no change, pulled the module and took out the spacer and regapped it, no change, rotated the wires one hole on the cap, both directions (so I didnt have to pull the distributor out) no better, pulled the wire off the cap to check the spark, got it... I dont get it. Any idea's? Really frustrated, tomorrow starts the final two days of crabbing and this thing wont run... And the napa store cant figure out what to order for a condensor to put points back in..

Vid of how it cranks and tries to run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJwpWojMj0A

Vid of how much spark I get off the coil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSjyK9BnsV4

[mcleaves]

I advanced and retarded the distributor, that's how I got it to pop. Otherwise nothing. Should I have to pull the distributor to reset the timing?

Actually i had to specifically do this on that engine. It did change the enough that I didn't have enough headroom to get her timed well enough to even fire. It was off by quite a bit. I went back and for the form points to pertonix on my 125 a few times and had to go through pulling the dizzy each time.

Once timed that conversion on that engine is well worth the price

[JohnVH]

Oh really? so I shouldnt return the pertronix? I hate that if I have a problem on the water Ill have to pull the dist. but if you say its worth it Ill try it. Ive read alot of good from this ignition, if I can get it to work......

[mcleaves]

Why would you return it (unless it's defective). Follow the advice in this thread, but I would certainly look at whether you have enough room to time it first. If not pull the dizzy and turn it a couple teeth and retry.. I am not the only who had to do this on the 125 so I would certainly consider that as a potential issue. If you have good spark and she fires with points it's gotta be timing.

[JohnVH]

I would return it because I took a smooth runner and turned it into a non runner with these parts. Ill pull the distributer tomorrow and see what happens then.

[mcleaves]

I would return it because I took a smooth runner and turned it into a non runner with these parts. Ill pull the distributer tomorrow and see what happens then.

I can appreciate your frustration but if it was running well before you are ahead of the game. Most people try to use the conversion to solve a poor running engine problem, which it won't do. Once you convert you won't regret it so try to sort it out. If it was running fine before it can only be a couple things, one of which i already detailed

[bruceb58]

What is the voltage at the coil and the pertronix unit while you are cranking?

I would return it because I took a smooth runner and turned it into a non runner with these parts. Ill pull the distributer tomorrow and see what happens then.

Personally, I would have left the points in. The amount of time you are spending fooling around with this would account for many times in the years to come changing the points.

Let's say it is a timing issue and that the Pertronix changes the timing. What is going to happen when you are out at sea, the Pertronix fails and you put in your spare points. Is your engine going to run with the timing way off?

[JohnVH]

What is the voltage at the coil and the pertronix unit while you are cranking?



Personally, I would have left the points in. The amount of time you are spending fooling around with this would account for many times in the years to come changing the points.

Let's say it is a timing issue and that the Pertronix changes the timing. What is going to happen when you are out at sea, the Pertronix fails and you put in your spare points. Is your engine going to run with the timing way off?

12V when I hot wire it to the battery to test it, with no luck.

And thats the other thing Ive thought about, either way will be a PITA, but it can be switched, by pulling the dist. if that cures it.

[bruceb58]

You bought one for a 4 cylinder engine right?

[JohnVH]

You bought one for a 4 cylinder engine right?

Ofcourse, this is the correct one. #2842

[bruceb58]

This is what I would do next.

1) rotate you engine to TDC on compression stroke so that rotor is pointing to #1 spark plug.

2)Put the cap back on and loosen the distributor hold down bolt.

3) Take the coil wire off of the distributor and place it near ground.

4) rotate the distributor in both directions until you find the point where you get a spark. This is where your distributor needs to be sitting to fire at TDC. You will obviously have to rotate it more to get the proper setting with the specified advance. Once it sparks once, you can wiggle it around at that location and see your spark.

That should at least get you in the ball park.

You have the magnetic sleeve in the proper orientation? There is a specification for gap between the magnet sleeve and the pickup unit.

[Aloysius]

The pertinent question HASN'T been answered..what is the voltage when CRANKING? It isn't 12 volts...that's what it is when it's sitting still. Cranking drops the voltage! If the Pertronix unit doesn't see 10 volts, it won't work.

[JohnVH]

The pertinent question HASN'T been answered..what is the voltage when CRANKING? It isn't 12 volts...that's what it is when it's sitting still. Cranking drops the voltage! If the Pertronix unit doesn't see 10 volts, it won't work.

so when I put the jumper wire straight to the battery to the petronix it isnt getting 12v from a 12v battery?

[Bubba1235]

It really sounds like you installed the distributor 180 degrees out of time. It is VERY EASY TO DO!!! Been there, done that, way more times than I want to admit...