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  1. #26
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    I've seen the powerpack doing this. But as mentioned above, it could also be the diode in the wiring harness.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    i see that the diode is buried in the harness just passed the main Red terminal connection. So I guess I have to cut into the harness to get to it. What value would I be looking for when testing this diode?

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    I am not sure what all test you have done...but am I correct to assume that it is going into SLOW mode with both temp wires and the VRO wires all disconnected?? if so, you may have a bad power pack...when it is in SLOW mode, what cylinders have fire and which ones do not??? a inductive tach light will tell you this.
    Free ignition troubleshooting guide http://issuu.com/cdielectronics/docs...owFlipBtn=true
    You will need a DVA adapter http://www.usatoolwarehouse.com/usat...e/ESI-640.html First test compression, Second test spark with a spark gap tester set a 7/16 gap, Third check timing, next CLEAN your carbs properly,

  4. #29

    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SparkieBoat View Post
    I am not sure what all test you have done...but am I correct to assume that it is going into SLOW mode with both temp wires and the VRO wires all disconnected?? if so, you may have a bad power pack...when it is in SLOW mode, what cylinders have fire and which ones do not??? a inductive tach light will tell you this.
    I had that problem on my 175, i immediately hooked up my 6 gallon tank and the problem went away.

    It turned out to be my tank pick up tube and clogged anti syphon valve did you also change out your filter on the motor if you have one and water seperator ?
    Last edited by laderwell; April 9th, 2012 at 11:07 PM. Reason: added info

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    that being a fuel restriction issue, I assume you also got a horn sound?

  6. #31

    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Most the times I did, but it was when I was going continuosly above 3000 RPM'S after running awhile . I bought a 6 gallon
    portable tank which the alarm would not go off. I eliminated the possibility of overheating with a infared thermometer

    I then hooked up a vacuum gage and watched it increase up to 7HG when the constant alarm went off, after replacing filter, anti syphon valve
    it started doing the same thing without alarm on take off . I took out the anti syphon valve again and crap was blocking the ball
    I had lots of crap in the tank causing the problem.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    I will check into the possibility of a fuel restriction but I doubt that that is the issue, thanks!

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Well folks, for those of you whom suggested the blocking diode, you were RIGHT! So, after all the "I told ya so's" I did end up replacing the power pack first, which is ***** backwards, I know. Im only 26 and on my second boat. Im learning. So to help others out there to learn from my experience here are some pictures.



    These two bolts gave me some trouble. It took some needle nose pliers to get to them, thankfully they were not bolted down too hard.



  9. #34
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but I doubt the diode was the problem.

    Here is why: All these sensors work on the principle that when they trigger due to a fault, they short to ground. The temp sensor, for example, when overheated, will trip internally, and cause the tan wire to go to ground. The pack sees that fault, goes into SLOW mode, and additionally, the horn sounds.

    The diode is a blocking diode. It prevents the pack from seeing the ground condition on the OTHER sensors (no oil, low oil, and fuel restriction). It isolates the temp alarm from the others.

    So here it is.....what better way to isolate any circuit than with a completely OPEN circuit like the BROKEN diode that your picture shows?
    The only way the diode could cause your SLOW mode condition is if it was SHORTED, and therefore not isolating the other alarm conditions. (I am going under the assumption that the lead was broken, and you did not CUT it).

    I suspect the pack was the culprit all along.

    Clanton? What do you think?

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    You should have ordered the pack kit as you still have the old wires., the OMC update was to the grey wires and reroute of the starboard temp wire as idf to close to spark plug lead it would trigger slow...hummmmmm. Make sure you have the Champion QL87YC plugs,grey wires,tan or red intake gaskets,sender reroute and you will be good to go.. Also the information is printed on back of pack.
    When in doubt,Trim it out!!!
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  11. #36
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Fazt, good advice, Ill look into those things, I have ordered the grey wires already, and I sould reroute the ground right?!

    Daselbee, I understand your point of view assuming the diode was broken. However, the only circuit that can send the power pack into slow mode is the overheat (temp switches). The other tan leads in the circuit do not send enough voltage, hence the diode(gate). The diode is a gate that lets so much voltage across it, as well as, keeping the current flowing in one direction, not important in Direct Current though. Its purpose in this circuit is as you said to block lower voltage. I tested the current in both directions(full continuity in both directions) and that is how I diagnosed the bad diode. Once I clipped the diode(simulating the block) it ran just fine. So, all is well.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBassin78 View Post
    Daselbee, I understand your point of view assuming the diode was broken. However, the only circuit that can send the power pack into slow mode is the overheat (temp switches). The other tan leads in the circuit do not send enough voltage, hence the diode(gate). The diode is a gate that lets so much voltage across it, as well as, keeping the current flowing in one direction, not important in Direct Current though. Its purpose in this circuit is as you said to block lower voltage. I tested the current in both directions(full continuity in both directions) and that is how I diagnosed the bad diode. Once I clipped the diode(simulating the block) it ran just fine. So, all is well.

    Ya know, others read these posts, and that one above was SO full of errors...so full of errors.

    I am glad you have it running, but your analysis as stated above is just wrong.

    Just so everyone else knows.....

    Tan leads send NO VOLTAGE. The pack and/or warning horn DETECTS a ground condition on these lines when it occurs. Period.
    Diodes are all about Direct Current. When a diode is present, it is in a DC circuit, OR it is in the process of converting AC to DC.
    If you had current flow in both directions on that diode, it is shorted. It would have been nice to know you clipped it too.

    Happy boating.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Thank you for your correction, I am still learning the electronics portion. I really should just keep my thoughts to myself until I know what I am talking about...Anyway, I have soldered what I believe to be an equivalent diode since I will not pay $15 for a half cent piece of silicone and tin. Daselbee, is this ok to put in its place? GP15M Silicon Rectifier Diode it shares the same main specs, 1.5A 1000v.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by daselbee View Post
    Ya know, others read these posts, and that one above was SO full of errors...so full of errors.

    I am glad you have it running, but your analysis as stated above is just wrong.

    Just so everyone else knows.....

    Tan leads send NO VOLTAGE. The pack and/or warning horn DETECTS a ground condition on these lines when it occurs. Period.
    Diodes are all about Direct Current. When a diode is present, it is in a DC circuit, OR it is in the process of converting AC to DC.
    If you had current flow in both directions on that diode, it is shorted. It would have been nice to know you clipped it too.

    Happy boating.
    Just to clarify for my own education. How does the diode just detect a ground. ANY ground would send 12v+- to the diode, right, whether its the oil or the temp. So how would the diode be able to cut off current from one ground signal and not the other? I guess, is the signal voltage lower, say 3.3, from the oil and fuel pump, and the temp much higher, like close to 12v??

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    the OP has a fast strike version of the 150 hp johnson 60 degree looper motor. The OP states his model number is j150eleo. I had thought that the fast strikes were the the GL versions.....ie j150 gleo

    does anyone know the different between the model numbers?

    thanks

    bob

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    I can't answer your question without paragraphs and paragraphs of electronic technobabble.
    I also would need to be able to draw circuits out, and I cannot do that here.

    But, no, the diode is not detecting ground, and no, grounding one side of a diode does not "send 12v+- to the diode".

    No, the signal voltages do not vary as in your example of 3.3v to 12v. Doesn't work that way.

    You will have to know how a diode works, specifically, the "cathode negative with respect tothe anode" aspect of diode operation.
    If the lead with the silver band (cathode) is negative with respect to the other lead (anode) the diode will conduct current.

    Consider a diode with the anode (no band lead) connected to the positive terminal of a battery. The cathode is connected to the negative terminal.
    So, the diode is forward biased, as the "cathode is negative with respect to the anode". Current will flow. If the battery is sufficient, and almost all are (even the AA cells), the diode will burn up. It will fail, either shorting internally, or opening up completely internally. Depends on how much current, the diode rating, and any huge number of factors as to which way it will fail. Most OPEN up.

    But reverse the leads. Now the diode is reverse biased, with the cathode on the positive battery terminal, and the anode on the negative battery terminal. It will now pass no current. And it will exist there indefinitely, happily, unless certain specs are exceeded.
    The major one is PRV, peak reverse voltage. If the diode is rated 1000v like the one you suggest to use, then a voltage spike of 1,500 volts will fry the diode. But a voltage spike of 900v will not do any damage.

    There is much more to it, terms like floating voltage, and virtual ground, but the whole deal centers around the fact that the pack "sees" a ground when the affected sensor triggers. Whatever the floating voltage was on the tan line from the pack, now it is ground because the sensor switched. So the pack does it's thing....SLOW. Or if the "no oil sensor" switches to ground, the horn sounds.

    Play around with your electrical system. Put your meter on volts 20v DC range, and measure the voltage on the tan wire from the pack. I have no idea what it will be. The pack electronics will be determining that. It could very well be 12v, floating. Then short the tan wire to ground. Horn will sound, and engine will go into SLOW. It is all in the pack, not the diode. Diode is a dumb component.

    If you look at the wiring diagram, you will see that in the case of the blocking diode, the way the other sensors are wired, if one of them goes to ground, (negative with respect to), the diode will not conduct, allowing the tan wire to stay at it's floating level.

    It is very hard to explain. I wish I could draw it out. Just remember "cathode negative with respect to anode" turns a diode on.

    That's what you do with your meter when you reverse the leads. You swap that "negative with respect to" factor.

    One other factor to consider is the voltage drop across the diode. Most all diodes have a 0.7vdc voltage drop across them when forward biased. So, if the cathode was grounded, you will measure .7 volts on the anode, in a properly designed electronic circuit.
    In my example above with a diode and battery, you would always have a load in the circuit to limit the current.
    That load is provided inside the pack. The pack itself limits the current on the tan line to ground when the sensor switches.

    I think you are assigning functionality to the diode when you should consider the pack as the driving electronic device here.

    Sorry for the technobabble.

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    that is one glaring example of why electronics trips up sooooo many of us.....just knowing electrical circuits isnt enough.,.....12 volts powers stuff..its either on or it isnt....is simple...but the truth is its way way more than that....

    thats why the factory makes and offeres so many electrical test devices to troubleshoot these motors...

    its complicated..!!!!!!!

    thanks daselbee..

    bob

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bob johnson View Post
    the OP has a fast strike version of the 150 hp johnson 60 degree looper motor. The OP states his model number is j150eleo. I had thought that the fast strikes were the the GL versions.....ie j150 gleo

    does anyone know the different between the model numbers?

    thanks

    bob
    Bob, the "L" in the model number indicates a 20" engine. The G and the L don't go together to indicate the GL model.

    If anything, the GL model will be designated at the end of the model number with a suffix alpha character like the "O" on the end of his model number.

    E200STLEDM is a 1996 200 Evinrude Vindicator, 20", tilt/trim, I don't know if the "S" or the "M" is the Vindicator designation.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bob johnson View Post
    that is one glaring example of why electronics trips up sooooo many of us.....just knowing electrical circuits isnt enough.,.....12 volts powers stuff..its either on or it isnt....is simple...but the truth is its way way more than that....

    thats why the factory makes and offeres so many electrical test devices to troubleshoot these motors...

    its complicated..!!!!!!!

    thanks daselbee..

    bob
    Bob, yeah that was a load of crap wasn't it? I have been at electronics for 40 years (my career), and it gets real complicated.
    Manual wirters put the step by step diagnosis procedure in to guide the majority of users to the proper diagnosis without having to fully understand exactly what is happening. You know...yes or no flow charts.....follow it to the problem.

    But, in dicking with these engines, I always, you know, kinda play around with them. I make faults on purpose to see what the effect is.
    For instance I deliberately opened up the timer base wires to the pack to see what happens. Found out the function of the purple, green and blue wires on the 200 looper timer base that way.

    The OP could easily, without damaging a thing, take a short jumper wire and jump across that blocking diode. Then he would have his SLOW problem back.

    File that knowledge away, and when you see it again, BINGO! Got the fix right here....

    This got way too deep....very sorry to put some of you guys to sleep.....

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    in 1995 I show these models available
    J150ELEOM
    J150EXEOM
    J150GLEOM
    J150JLEOM
    J150NXEOM
    J150SLEOM
    J150WTLEOR
    J150WTXEOR
    VJ150HLEOS

    the GL, SL, and HL, all have the 175 HP higher compression heads and the main jets are almost the same as the 175 HP. these motors are reported to produce %10 more HP than rated.
    Free ignition troubleshooting guide http://issuu.com/cdielectronics/docs...owFlipBtn=true
    You will need a DVA adapter http://www.usatoolwarehouse.com/usat...e/ESI-640.html First test compression, Second test spark with a spark gap tester set a 7/16 gap, Third check timing, next CLEAN your carbs properly,

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by daselbee View Post
    Bob, the "L" in the model number indicates a 20" engine. The G and the L don't go together to indicate the GL model.

    If anything, the GL model will be designated at the end of the model number with a suffix alpha character like the "O" on the end of his model number.

    E200STLEDM is a 1996 200 Evinrude Vindicator, 20", tilt/trim, I don't know if the "S" or the "M" is the Vindicator designation.
    well the GL model designation is unique...the S models are ocean runner- ocean pro( depending on the brand johnson or evinrude...and they has an X and and L version for 20" shafts and 25" shafts... as does the E version.. ie EL, or EX....BUT the G does not....it is ONLY offered in L shaft length.... on the 115s and the 150 and 175 motors.....

    the GL version is specifically DIFFERENT than the other version in the 115 hp model as it develops its HP rating at a different RPM than the other models and its RPM range is HIGHER....this doesnt follow to the V6 models...but


    sooooo what ever the GL model actually is...( i had thought it was the intruder-fast strike version) it only comes in 20" shaft

    since the OP showed a picture which clearly shows a fast Strike motor....and he listed it as ELEO......I was left wondering what the GLEO motor was badged as...

    reading from the book for all 60 degree looper motors in 150 and 175 hp for 1995...they list E, N, G J C H and S model designations before the letter for the shaft length. I would hazard a guess the J is for a jet foot motor....wondering what is different about all the rest

    they even list a 150SLER in the 1995 60 degree looper manual....goes figure...dont know if its a johnson or an evinrude.

    you have to be acrefull about what the evinrude.com and boats net parts pages say interchange from one motor to the other

    I have a 90 hp and a 115 hp motor from the same year ones an ocean pro and the other is an ocean runner... the book says the heads interchange...but they dont! sure the BOLT on.....but the chamber is about .090" deeper on the 90 than the 115...

    they also say the carbs interchange.....but the bores ar e way smaller on the smaller HP models......


    everything I can find is saying the GL models were fast strikes and Intruders...the other letters were ocean runners and ocean pros...9 dont know whay they had different designations...

    I wonder if the OP motor was painted to make it look like a fast strike


    bob

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Well is it running or not, I want to know.
    Help somebody every day, if you can.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Like Daselbee said, just a blocking diode. Blocks the ground from the low oil, no oil, and fuel restriction sensors to the pack. Remember all of the tans wires come together as they go to the control harness, except for 1996 and up. The 96 and up has a tan wire with marker from each sensor going farward to the tach. Carbuator engines only.
    Help somebody every day, if you can.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by clanton View Post
    Well is it running or not, I want to know.
    Well to clear up some confusion, it is in fact a GLEOM I appoligize for the misinformation. I was going on the model number guide because I did not have access to boat a the time of the post..

    She is running now, but have another issue to deal with.. I have another post for that... Only hitting 4800 rpm @51-52mph. Im missing a 1000rpm somewhere. Compression is acceptable, prop may be the issue. I'm running a 14.5x 24p ss raker

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

    Usually, when you loose 1000rpm, it is because you have dropped a cylinder. Check spark on all cyls.

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