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  1. #1
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    Default Fastrac Power Tilt Trim Trim down problem

    Fastrac PTT from 1993 J200TZATS 200 HP Johnson. The problem I am having is with the trim. It started after replacing the tilt ram seal and O rings and the filter and O ring between the valve body and pump motor. When the motor contacts the trim rams and I continue to hold the switch in the down position it trims down very slowly. I know that the trim operation is much slower than the tilt but it is now taking 2 to 3 minutes of constantly running the pump to get it from where it contacts the trim rams to fully trim down. It is as if the fluid in the lower section of the trim cylinders cannot escape freely and the force of the tilt cylinder pulling down on the engine is slowly pushing down on the trim rams forcing the oil out of the bottom of the trim cylinders through a valve that is not opening completely. Everything else, Trim up, Tilt up, Tilt down and Holding in any position seems to be working as expected. It is only Trimming down that is an issue.

    Related information:
    Initial problem Resolved which started the new trim problem – The unit was working fine but the seal on the tilt ram was leaking so I decided I would replace it. I purchased a seal and O ring kit for the unit and proceeded to make the repair. I removed the PTT from the boat, removed the tilt ram and replaced the seal as well as the O rings on the cap and piston. I was careful to ensure that the springs and check valve balls in the piston stayed in place when I removed and reinstalled the piston on to the ram shaft. Since I had the parts and it was simple to do I also replaced the filter and O ring between the valve body and electric pump motor. I never touched the trim rams or the bypass screw as it is frozen in the closed position. I put it back together filled it up with oil and installed it on the boat. It would raise the engine but would not hold in any position except for full up and when full up if I just engaged the down switch for a fraction of a second the PTT would lose its hold and slowly lower all the way down. I bled the air out and continued to top off until full but it still would not hold. I took it back off and noticed that I could extend and compress the tilt ram manually by hand and knew something did not go back together right. I was running out of time and decided to drop it off at a local shop. The mechanic got the tilt ram working properly. I suspect I had the O rings reversed between the cap and the piston which was allowing fluid to pass around the piston. One was a bit thicker and I think I put the thicker one on the cap when it should have gone on the piston. I am not sure if the shop just reversed them to fix that problem and the mechanic could not tell me what they had done to fix it.

    Current problem needing a solution – The Mechanic said that in the vice on the bench the trim rams do not contract which he believes should. Based on some other posts on the subject I believe this is normal. He thought it may be a missing a check balls in one of the 4 check valves that are visible when you lift the motor off the valve body. He says there are what appears to be 4 valves and only 3 have balls in them and thinks one may have fallen out when I replaced the filter.

    I took it back home, put it on the boat, bled and refilled it and all is working well except for the Trim rams as described at the top of this post. The trim rams extend properly but will not contract easily. The mechanic obviously got deeper into the valve body than I did to replace the filter and may have done something that is causing the trim problem. He said something in the valve body was in upside down but as I recall the only thing in the top of the VB that I touched was the filter so maybe he opened it up further and flipped something he should not have or lost the check ball .

    Any knowledge or advise that will help me figure this out is greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by pagz; November 13th, 2013 at 09:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Supreme Mariner Joe Reeves's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fastrac Power Tilt Trim Trim down problem

    Error here... Advice given on wrong type PTT. Deleted reply and graphic.Delet
    Last edited by Joe Reeves; November 15th, 2013 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Deletion
    Our Questions Require Answers... If You Refuse To Answer Our Questions... How Can We Answer Yours?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fastrac Power Tilt Trim Trim down problem

    Thanks for the reply Joe. I do not believe I have that large slotted screw on my PTT. I have a 1993 200HP Ocean Runner and I think the PTT is a Fastrac from that model year. I am in VA and my boat is 250 miles away in NC but I will be going down the week of Thanksgiving to do some Striper fishing which is why I am trying to figure out what I should try to get it fixed while I am there. I am hoping it is something simple as it was working fine before I replaced the Main tilt Scraper Seal, tilt cap O ring, tilt piston O ring and the valve body filter and O ring. I did not open or touch anything else. I don't have any pics of my PTT but found some on the web that look the same. This is what mine looks like.

    PTT1.jpgPTT2.jpgPTT3.jpg

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Fastrac Power Tilt Trim Trim down problem

    thats a showa built trim. check valves and stuff are all internalized.

    http://www.crowleymarine.com/yamaha-...ts/9932412.cfm
    Last edited by RRitt; November 15th, 2013 at 07:47 AM.

  5. #5
    Supreme Mariner Joe Reeves's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fastrac Power Tilt Trim Trim down problem

    Quote Originally Posted by pagz View Post
    Thanks for the reply Joe. I do not believe I have that large slotted screw on my PTT. I have a 1993 200HP Ocean Runner and I think the PTT is a Fastrac from that model year.
    Understood. I retired shortly before your model was manufactured and obviously the PTT assembly was upgraded. Unfortunately what I had to say, including the diagram (now deleted), will be of no help to you BUT I'm sure that someone here will have the solution to your problem. I wish you luck.
    Last edited by Joe Reeves; November 15th, 2013 at 07:28 PM.
    Our Questions Require Answers... If You Refuse To Answer Our Questions... How Can We Answer Yours?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fastrac Power Tilt Trim Trim down problem

    Thanks Joe.

    RRitt, Thank you for identifying the PTT and the link to the diagram and parts list. It looks just like the Johnson except the Johnson diagrams do not show all the parts in the Valve body and I could not find them in a parts list. I am guessing that all the Yamaha branded parts also fit on the Johnson branded PTT and now know that I can find a part if I need one. Now if I could only figure out if it is a part that I need or just some correction in the assembly. Do you have any ideas based on my description of the problem?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Fastrac Power Tilt Trim Trim down problem

    Quote Originally Posted by pagz View Post
    Thanks Joe.

    RRitt, Thank you for identifying the PTT and the link to the diagram and parts list. It looks just like the Johnson except the Johnson diagrams do not show all the parts in the Valve body and I could not find them in a parts list. I am guessing that all the Yamaha branded parts also fit on the Johnson branded PTT and now know that I can find a part if I need one. Now if I could only figure out if it is a part that I need or just some correction in the assembly. Do you have any ideas based on my description of the problem?

    too many cooks have stirred the pot. I'm not even sure if its soup any longer.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Fastrac Power Tilt Trim Trim down problem

    Okay, thanks for the info provided so far. I suspect the problem resides within the valve body. When I get back to the boat I will inspect the valve body components, clean it out and go from there.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Fastrac Power Tilt Trim Trim down problem

    in broad generalities ... solve the problem by dividing in two until only a small portion is left.

    in this case figure out if it is failure to generate pressure or failure to hold pressure. then figure out which or both directions. then figure out if it is ram or pump. that should narrow it down to less than a dozen little parts. unfortunately, without a reference you won't be able to say for sure if it is a bad part or a wrong part. there's a very good chance that once you narrow it down to a subsection then you'll have to throw money at it (buy new parts that you may or may not need until it finally works).

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fastrac Power Tilt Trim Trim down problem

    Thanks RRitt. From watching it operate it looks like the tilt ram is doing all the work when the engine is trimming down. It seems like the fluid in the trim section is not flowing properly. It trims down very slowly and under great pressure from the tilt section. So slowly that you can barely tell it's moving but it does move and eventually will trim all the way in. My suspicion is that when the engine contacts the trim rams from the upward motion of the tilt ram, there is resistance from the trim rams and as the tilt ram continues to be forced up the weight of the engine along with the downward pressure from the tilt ram is slowly putting pressure on the trim rams and pushing fluid either through a valve that is not opening all the way or maybe even around the pistons in the trim cylinders due to a stuck valve.

    In normal operation, I assume that the movement of the trim pistons downward is facilitated by the pump pushing fluid into the top of the cylinder so the valve allowing fluid to pass into the top and escape from the bottom would be open and in reverse the opposite would be the case. Since the trim works normally going up (fluid entering the bottom and escaping the top) but not down it seems that the valve allowing fluid to pass into the top and escape from the bottom would be the most likely problem.

    Do you know which valve(s) control this function or does this give you any other ideas of what might be going on? I did not open the trim cylinders or turn the bypass screw when I changed out the other parts and with the PTT disconnected from the engine I can lift and raise the engine by hand smoothly with no binding.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Fastrac Power Tilt Trim Trim down problem

    Based on what the mechanic was saying I expect that when I pull this apart I am going to find that I am missing one of the 4 steel balls (2) #5 & (2) #19 and if that is the case I am sure it was lost when he took the VB apart I never removed the cover over these parts. He may or may not have known he lost it but he acted like he was feeling a little guilty about something. I thought it was because he was not sure that he had fixed it completely. It was nice that he only charged me $20 for oil, no labor. If this is the case it will only cost me .88 plus shipping
    Valve Body Exploded View.jpg

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Fastrac Power Tilt Trim Trim down problem

    if it was me, i would buy a used one off ebay and use it as a reference. I would completely rebuild both units replacing every seal, ball bearing, and plastic moving part in both systems. I would even replace the parts that had already been replaced once. Every little speck would be perfect or unacceptable. No corner cutting. I'd check the motor to see if it is worth keeping. New motors are $60ish but the labor to replace later could be 2-3 times more.

    now, you should have two systems that work perfectly and will last 15-25 years without any trouble. Pick the one you want to keep and dump the other back onto ebay. if you are lucky then you'll break even on the ebay unit and have 10x more confidence in your own boat.
    Last edited by RRitt; November 16th, 2013 at 07:34 AM.

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