9.9 Evinrude model E10FRELEVA Four stroke: Has no mid range

[halmc]

I've been chasing this issue for about a year.

My engine idles very well, runs wide open very well, but getting from idle to wide open is nearly impossible.

No matter how fast or slow I move the throttle from idle to wide open, it begins to stumble just off idle, may or may not "catch". If it doesn't, it dies. If it does catch, it's Katie bar the door: it will run full power until the cows come home. Yo, and if I leave it idling, it will idle until the other cows come home.

What have I done: disassembled the carburetor about five times, blown it out with compressed air about five times, tried every setting of the idle screw about five times. And just for fun, replaced the fuel pump. One time. Fuel delivery to the carburetor seems to be ok. The fuel lines are clear, and when after moving the throttle forward, and the engine dying, the carb bowl is full of fuel.

Electrical: on the understanding that the ignition system is a magneto-powered CDI system, I've not confirmed that either the battery or the charging system is up to snuff.

So: what am I missing?

[nwcove]

have you actually done a rebuild on the carb? or just blew air through it? jmo, but id start with cleaning the carb properly just to have it done, then look at fuel delivery ( sucking air at a connection? etc etc) , then if no cure, move on to electrical/ignition. i just like to trouble shoot the least expensive/obvious things first.

[halmc]

have you actually done a rebuild on the carb? or just blew air through it? jmo, but id start with cleaning the carb properly just to have it done, then look at fuel delivery ( sucking air at a connection? etc etc) , then if no cure, move on to electrical/ignition. i just like to trouble shoot the least expensive/obvious things first.

You did notice the "dissassembled" in my post, I hope. In each instance I took the carburetor into its smallest parts. The first time, I anointed it with new gaskets and needle valve all of which was a waste of time. I removed the high speed jet, as well as the fixed orfice jet in the top cover that doesn't even show up in the manuals. The idle needle is straight, and unboogered. If there was anything improper about the carb cleaning I did, help me identify it cuz that maybe where the problem lies.

As for fuel delivery to the carburetor, I addressed that in my post. And the engine addressed that by running wfo. If it were a fuel pump that would operate only at high rpm, then the engine wouldn't idle well. But it does.

It would also help to know what aspect of the ignition system would permit the engine to idle well, to run wfo well, but not to operate in mid range.

[nwcove]

did notice "dissasembled", but in some cases that just means new gaskets, float and needle, and a shot of air. a true carb rebuild is welch plugs out, passages cleaned, carb soaked for hours in carb cleaner etc. , but if you are confident in the fuel system, all lines and connections......where else do you look except electrical/timing/ignition?

[halmc]

did notice "dissasembled", but in some cases that just means new gaskets, float and needle, and a shot of air. a true carb rebuild is welch plugs out, passages cleaned, carb soaked for hours in carb cleaner etc. , but if you are confident in the fuel system, all lines and connections......where else do you look except electrical/timing/ignition?

No welch plug in this carburetor, and it has been soaked in heated carburetor cleaner for hours. Passages cleaned with stainless safety wire, and in any case, the passages in this carburetor are exposed almost completely when the top cover is removed.

Where else I look is precisely my question. That and what aspect of the ignition system would permit hi and lo running w/no middle running.

[nwcove]

sounds like you are confident with the carb, but are you sure the fuel lines are tight....right from the tank to the carb? air bubbles and rpm can do odd things. other than that , engine timing/electrical is something to look into. jmo

[boobie]

Dumb question. Is that model # correct ?? And what year is it ??

[cajuncook1]

have you actually done a rebuild on the carb? or just blew air through it? jmo, but id start with cleaning the carb properly just to have it done, then look at fuel delivery ( sucking air at a connection? etc etc) , then if no cure, move on to electrical/ignition. i just like to trouble shoot the least expensive/obvious things first.

You did notice the "dissassembled" in my post, I hope. In each instance I took the carburetor into its smallest parts. The first time, I anointed it with new gaskets and needle valve all of which was a waste of time. I removed the high speed jet, as well as the fixed orfice jet in the top cover that doesn't even show up in the manuals. The idle needle is straight, and unboogered. If there was anything improper about the carb cleaning I did, help me identify it cuz that maybe where the problem lies.

As for fuel delivery to the carburetor, I addressed that in my post. And the engine addressed that by running wfo. If it were a fuel pump that would operate only at high rpm, then the engine wouldn't idle well. But it does.

It would also help to know what aspect of the ignition system would permit the engine to idle well, to run wfo well, but not to operate in mid range.

HMMMM....didn't realize that Evinrude BRP made 4 strokes. They do have the E-TEC 2 cycle direct fuel injection.


I think what nwcove was referring too. If your engine is running fine at idle and fine at WOT then chances are very good that your ignition is in order. Usually if your have having mid range issues, then your carburetor and or fuel system is having issues. The reason he asked if you cleaned it, because countless times people refer to cleaning the carburetor is shooting carburetor spray through it or just blowing air through the pass ways.

(Please, not accusing you of doing that!!) Even if it is disassembled and cleaned. Sometimes things are missed...even the pro's are not perfect!! There have been post that are 5 or 6 pages in length trying to resolve a carburetor issue, only to find out that an individual did not correctly or completely clean a carburetor. The guys are just trying to be systematic so this less frustration for you and not a 5 or 6 page post that has you changing 5 million parts and spending hundreds to thousands of dollars.



So, please be patient when someone is trying to help or offer suggestions.

[cajuncook1]

You may already have this link and gone through it, but I thought I would post it just in case. The author has done a very lengthy and good job of posting very very good information about Johnson and Evinrude motors regarding the 9.9/15hp Evinrude/Johnson outboards.

http://www.sschapterpsa.com/rambling...OMC%20info.htm

[boobie]

Evinrude BRP never did make 4 strokes. They marketed them under the Johnson label made by Suzuki. OMC at one time made 4 strokes and they were a farce.

[cajuncook1]

Evinrude BRP never did make 4 strokes. They marketed them under the Johnson lablel made by Suzuki. OMC at one time made 4 strokes and they were a farce.

That is what I thought, the poster listed he had a 9.9 Evinrude 4 stroke. So, just wondering if he knew that he does not have a four stroke?? Couldn't find information on the model number listed above, so don't know what year or breakdown of his motor.

[boobie]

I couldn't find any info under the model # either unless it wasn't built in this country.

[AlTn]

if you allow the v to become a u there is a 1997 9.9 evinrude 4 stroke E10FRELEUA...you may get more help in the suzuki repair section.. I was thinking it may be an accelerator pump issue but it doesn't appear to have that setup..with the carb inverted raise the float on the free end 1/8" or so...any improvement?..worse?...

[halmc]

Well, by dawn's early light I've noticed two things. First of all, my Evinrude may well be a Johnson. I did, however, copy that model number directly from the engine. Althogh the carburetor is in my shop, the rest of the engine is about 30 miles south of here along with the boat. So the Evinrude v. Johnson issue defers to another day.

More importantly, however, there is a welch plug present, and behnd the welch plug was some crud that smelt of carburetor cleaner. There is some mechanical damage that looks like an earlier botched removal of the welch plug and I doubt that I can remove any component w/o considerable damage to the soft, brass parts that are looking out at me. And looking necessary to mid range running.

I do remember the DPO (distinguished prior owner) mumbling something about "the carburetor may need cleaning". Could be he knew more about that carb than he let on.

(No accelerator pump, AlTn. I think the 15hp version may have one)

I may be soon in the market for a carb.

[halmc]

So, just wondering if he knew that he does not have a four stroke??

It would help the poster a great deal if you could expain the presence of a timing belt, poppet valves, and a camshaft on my "two stroke".

Here's the cover of my manual. The guts of my engine bear an astonishing resemblence to the four stroke entrails described in detail in this manual, and my engine wears the livery of the engine on the left, but the profile of the one on the right. I'm about 95% sure it's branded as an Evinrude.

And given the timing belt, the camshaft, and those valves -- to say nothng if it's sounding a lot like my KTM EXC 540, and nothing like my KTM 300EXC, I'm fairly confident that it's a fo' stroke, as they're called in North Florida.

If it weren't so horribly cold -- 56F -- here in Fla, I'd hop on a bike, go to the coast and confirm its brand and model number.

EDIT Also found picture of me - - - - Evinrude - - - - on the boat.

[AlTn]

you mention timing belt...any chance it's jumped 1 tooth?

[halmc]

you mention timing belt...any chance it's jumped 1 tooth?

A chance, but the engine presents about the same power at WFO that it always has -- and it starts easy and idles well. I'll take a look at the belt for any sign of deterioration.

I'm looking with even greater suspicion at the carb. Sure whish I had one to substitute for a bit.

[cajuncook1]

It would help the poster a great deal if you could expain the presence of a timing belt, poppet valves, and a camshaft on my "two stroke".

Here's the cover of my manual. The guts of my engine bear an astonishing resemblence to the four stroke entrails described in detail in this manual, and my engine wears the livery of the engine on the left, but the profile of the one on the right. I'm about 95% sure it's branded as an Evinrude.

And given the timing belt, the camshaft, and those valves -- to say nothng if it's sounding a lot like my KTM EXC 540, and nothing like my KTM 300EXC, I'm fairly confident that it's a fo' stroke, as they're called in North Florida.

If it weren't so horribly cold -- 56F -- here in Fla, I'd hop on a bike, go to the coast and confirm its brand and model number.

EDIT Also found picture of me - - - - Evinrude - - - - on the boat.

Apparently you have all the answers!!! So, good luck to you!!



Cheers!

[halmc]

[B][U]Apparently you have all the answers!!! So, good luck to you!!

Yo, Chief, not only can I tell a four stroke from a two, I can quote w/o including the pictures!

[cajuncook1]

I was not insulting your ability to differentiate between a 2 stroke and 4 stroke. I for one, did not know that Evinrude made a 4 stroke. So, error on my part. But, I can admit when I made a mistake.

You see, when someone goes to any forum and ask for help, they should be gracious that people are willing to help....for free. Also if, someone ask questions or is inquiring about something to try and help out, the individual seeking assistance should not be sarcastic or an insulting smarty pants. I am not making reference to your response to myself, but the member nwcove

Example:

have you actually done a rebuild on the carb? or just blew air through it? jmo, but id start with cleaning the carb properly just to have it done, then look at fuel delivery ( sucking air at a connection? etc etc) , then if no cure, move on to electrical/ignition. i just like to trouble shoot the least expensive/obvious things first.

You did notice the "dissassembled" in my post, I hope. In each instance I took the carburetor into its smallest parts. The first time, I anointed it with new gaskets and needle valve all of which was a waste of time. I removed the high speed jet, as well as the fixed orfice jet in the top cover that doesn't even show up in the manuals. The idle needle is straight, and unboogered. If there was anything improper about the carb cleaning I did, help me identify it cuz that maybe where the problem lies.

As for fuel delivery to the carburetor, I addressed that in my post. And the engine addressed that by running wfo. If it were a fuel pump that would operate only at high rpm, then the engine wouldn't idle well. But it does.

It would also help to know what aspect of the ignition system would permit the engine to idle well, to run wfo well, but not to operate in mid range.

Oh, when nwcove inquired about a expansion/core plug or welch plug, you informed him your carburetor did not have one. Only to find out that, according to you, you have one now.

More importantly, however, there is a welch plug present, and behnd the welch plug was some crud that smelt of carburetor cleaner. There is some mechanical damage that looks like an earlier botched removal of the welch plug and I doubt that I can remove any component w/o considerable damage to the soft, brass parts that are looking out at me. And looking necessary to mid range running.

So, I certainly not insulting your knowledge on outboards, but your demeanor of responses to other members. I don't normally get into with posters, but a lot of these members go to lengthy amounts of time to help people. It just amazes me how some people can be rudely sarcastic but are asking for help.


Sorry, to be so blunt and waste your time, but I am giving you the benefit of doubt that you did not realize you were being insulting and a know it all when you are clearly asking for help.

I will not disturb your thread any long, good day to you.

[nwcove]

Well, by dawn's early light I've noticed two things. First of all, my Evinrude may well be a Johnson. I did, however, copy that model number directly from the engine. Althogh the carburetor is in my shop, the rest of the engine is about 30 miles south of here along with the boat. So the Evinrude v. Johnson issue defers to another day.

More importantly, however, there is a welch plug present, and behnd the welch plug was some crud that smelt of carburetor cleaner. There is some mechanical damage that looks like an earlier botched removal of the welch plug and I doubt that I can remove any component w/o considerable damage to the soft, brass parts that are looking out at me. And looking necessary to mid range running.

I do remember the DPO (distinguished prior owner) mumbling something about "the carburetor may need cleaning". Could be he knew more about that carb than he let on.

(No accelerator pump, AlTn. I think the 15hp version may have one)

I may be soon in the market for a carb.

apology accepted. lol

[cyclops2]

halmc

You really did get a DIY mess with that squashed in plug part.
You have little to lose buy trying to remove the DIY mess. Go for it. Take the carb to a dealer. Ask for the service manager ONLY. Tell him the full story. He may take pity on you & put the carb guy on it. GET A FIRM price on the cleaning out of the welch plug mess. No further untill you look at the welch repair job. You like it ? your call on them stoping & you doing the reassembly.

Carbs are not cheap. Neither is a dealer. Have both numbers before jumping.