1985 Johnson 60Hp motor truning over very slow

[srt4wad]

I just want to find out if it takes a lot to start this motor? I checked the battery and I am getting 12Volts but the motor is turning very slow. Even if I am showing 12 volts I could still have a problem with the battery correct? The motor when turning over sounded strong and we checked for spark and its there I just think I may have an issue with the battery.

Thanks
Wade

[Walker]

Could be; battery, corroded battery cable ends, bad battery cables, corroded cable connections at the motor, bad starter

[srt4wad]

Very cool I hope it is the battery becuase I knew when I bought the boat that it was going to take time and money to get it the way I want it but, I don't want to dump a pile of money it into something thats going to be giving me problems all the time. If the motor will start and stays running I am going to take it to my dads buddy and have him look at it and check it over before I deciede to dump serious money. As long as the motor runs and runs fine I don't mind putting some money into the motor to help it out you know.

Thank You
Wade

[JUSTINTIME]

u need to do a voltage drop test
i posted one on here do a search

[jtexas]

A fully charged battery measures at least 12.65V (open circuit) - it is fully discharged at 12.1V - measure with a digital voltmeter or a hydrometer.

A car parts store will do a "load test" for free, that's really the final answer.

If you're measuring 12V (+ or - half a volt) at the starter motor terminal with the solenoid engaged, then the prob is with the starter, or maybe the motor is seized.

How long since it was last used? If it's been several months, drain the old gas, rinse the tank & fill with fresh fuel. Good idea to premix oil (50:1 ratio of tcw3 2-stroke oil) until you confirm operation of the VRO.

Do a compression test, look for both cylinders to be within 5% of each other.

Get new spark plugs, champion QL77JC4 gapped at .030

If it has been sitting a while, might as well order your carb rebuild kits now.

Unless you know how long since the last water pump replacement, do that too.

Do you know the cold start procedure?

have fun!

[srt4wad]

Ok, I hooked up the flush kit yestruday and puy the battery jump box on the battery and turned the key it took a few times but, the motor tuned over and ran for about 3 sec and then shut off. I was in such a hurry to see if this thing would run that I did not do the cold start prcedure and I think that is why it did not run very long. I have to put the control box back together since I know the new ingition switch is going to work and then I am going to try and start the motor again but, the right way this time. Thanks for everybodys help its great to find people that are willing to help with out wanting money. I will post later tonight or tomorrow and the status.

Thanks
Wade

[srt4wad]

Ok, took the boat out today and it ran great. We ran out of gas and had a little bit of a problem starting it back up and I think we fouied the plugs. We finally got it started enough to run down the river and then wham it started working again. I came back home and put the flush kit on it and it started right up and seemed to be running fine. I am taking it back out tomorrow for another run before I take it to the gulf to do a little sheaphead fishing.

Thanks
Wade

[OBJ]

Wade...do be aware that there is a very large difference in running the engine on muffs and in the water. With the engine in the water, there is backpressure against the cylinders because the water is up in the exhaust cavity. On muffs, there is no back pressure. The engine will appear to run great even if there is a fuel problem.....please keep that in mind.

Just a couple questions......is the VRO pump still connected to the oil supply or are you premixing?

Did you happen to notice or see if the engine was running at a normal temp at idle? If not, after the engine is running at idle for a while, put your fingers on the flat area on top of the block just forward of the head. If you can keep your fingers on there for several seconds, the engine should be running at a normal temp. If, on the other hand, the area feels cool all the time at idle, take a look at the t-stat. May be stuck open. A cold running engine does not promote good combustion and can cause plug fouling and poor running.

[srt4wad]

We have to premix the gas we are mixing it at 50:1 becuase the guy I bought it from said that is what he ran. I will check the temp tonight when I get home. We took it yesturday again for another test run and this time we had a full tank of mix and when we put it in gear it stalls so what we had to do is when it would start just push the lever down quick and it would work through and start running fine. We are going to take the carbs off and clean them hopefully we can get them clean. I also put new plugs in and gap them at .030 but the old plugs that came out where around .040 would that matter on the way the motor is running? If so should I go ahead and gap the new plugs at .040?

[tashasdaddy]

if you are planning on a lot of trolling use Champion QL77JC4 gapped at .040. if planing on a lot of high speed running use the non gappable QL78V. the idle has to be set high when running on muffs, and readjusted after in the water, and in gear. rpms should be 650 to 700 in gear.

[jtexas]

Best go with tashasdad on the plug gap .040 - the gapless plug is spec'd for sustained full-throttle ops.

soak the carbs overnight (I use berryman's b-12), blast the orfices with compressed air or use b-12 in the spray can. with luck that'll help the stalling in gear - a partially clogged idle orfice can drop a cylinder under load even if it idles good on the muffs.

[srt4wad]

Ok, we took the carbs off and looked at them and they seemed all good no kind of build up or anything. The only question I have is the needel in the middle of the carb is not sitting in the middle of the tube its cocked to one side (both) are like that so I am guessing that is what they are supposed to look like. We put the carbs back on and its running worse then before. We did not touch any of the bolts except for the ones that to take the bowl off. I am not sure how to adjust the rail that connects both carbs is there a certian way these should be installed? When we took the bottom carb off we did not take the rail off we just left it mounted to the carb. It stalls now unless I hold the warm up lever on the control box. The other question I have is what is the RED lever on the side of the motor closest to the bottom carb? I guess we are idiots for taking the carbs off but there is really nothing to the carbs since we did not mess with any of the little gold screws we think it is something to do with that rail that connects both carbs. But, we will soak the carbs overnight and see whats going on.

We will also gap the plugs .040

One more thing that may help with the madness we created we got it to run when we fiddled with the rail and then all of a sudden the motor took off like it was a WOT once I shut the motor off I went back and fiddled some more and it runs like crap Its also smoking a lot more then it use to.

Look I am sorry if we created any headaches for anybody but we do not have the money to take it in because it will sit there forever. We really enjoy messing with these things and some times its best to leave things alone. We just figured it would be best to clean everything up before we took it far from home. Now we just hope with some more help from you guys we will be on the water with no problems having fun like those that are on the water now.

Thanks
Wade

[72SideWinderSS]

www.kencook.com buy a manual that will help a bunch.

[jtexas]

Don't worry you'll have it back running in no time.

You can't see inside the jets & orfices to tell whether its gummed up. Old gas turns to varnish and takes a good soaking to clean it out. remove the welsh plugs & blast some cleaner through all the passages.

Be careful with those brass screws I mangled one good & never did get it out - this is one time when you have to use the right size screwdriver.

The connecting rail should just pop into place. Shouldn't really need adjustment - just make sure the throttle valves are parallel and move in synch with each other, from fully closed w/throttle in the idle position, to full horizontal (but not beyond) at WOT. The throttle cam needs to hit the cam follower roller precisely on the mark (or between the marks if your cam has two) when you push the throttle forward. That advances the spark timing just before the butterflies open, otherwise it'll just die when you try to throttle up. the cam follower is mounted with a screw in a slot on the bracket so it can be adjusted.

The red lever operates the primer valve - allows fuel to drain into the cylinders for a cold start - I can't remember now, but turned one way it's operated by solenoid, push the ignition key in to actuate it, turn the other way is manual operation.

Make sure the carb mounting gasket is in good shape so it won't suck in air around behind the carb.

I highly recommend the manual

meantime you can find a schematic for your engine from here:
http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/Access...re/?popup=true

follow the links - johnsons are in there too. hope it helps

[srt4wad]

Do I need that VRO thing? I have to premix myself since there is only a 6gal tank. Also I went to that site and kencook and I do not see a manual.

[ezeke]

The VRO mixes oil and gas. If you mix the oil and gas [premix] you still need a fuel pump.

It is very easy to use the VRO as a fuel pump.

Ken Cook Company is official: call them at 414-466-6060 and they will have your manual shipped out today. You need the model number.

[srt4wad]

Is there a way to check the VRO to see if it is working correctly?

[ezeke]

Read this article and study the diagram: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

There is a check list/diagram. I will see if I can find a link for it.

[Edit]

http://www.maxrules.com/graphics/vro...Oflowchart.JPG

[jtexas]

VRO pump might've been replaced with a regular fuel pump. Or else a prior owner plugged the oil lines & disabled the alarms when he started premixing. Out of fear the VRO would break down. You'd have to hook it back up, fill the reservoir with oil & see how much it uses over a tank of gasoline. Run premixed fuel while testing in case it doesn't work.

try www.kencook.com/evinrudejohnsonmanuals/ or the phone number exeke posted. Get the shop manual - best $70 you'll ever spend. parts catalogue is helpful; you can find the parts list online (BRP site linked above) but it doesn't always work.

[edited: I was still typing when ezeke posted - not that I'm that slow - got distracted, came back and finished - hate it when that happens!]

[srt4wad]

Well I took the carbs off last night to soak them and when I took the top carb's bowl off guess what was in there, a piece of the shop towel I used Monday night to dry up some of the cleaner we sprayed. I put both carbs in the cleaner and I will be taking them out tonight to blow them out and put them back together.

Somebody has already taken the carbs off before us becuase the carbs have to different gaskets. Will the local Johnson dealer have the gaskets for these carb's? I would also like to replace the gasket that is mounted to the air box deal that bolts to the carbs.

Is there a big difference if I am running NGK instead of Champion plugs? The guy at the part store gave me the NGKs.

We are going to replace all fuel lines. Its just wierd that the thing was running fine until we ran out of gas and since then its just ran like crap thats why we think it has to do with the fuel system.

Sorry one more thing the idle bolt has a spring and hex nut (that I guess keeps the bolt from backing out on its own when running) that I need to compress that spring back down and get the hex nut in there because with the spring decompressed its keeping the bolt from going further to get the idle point I need I had to take the spring and hex nut out and use just the bolt to get the idle I needed.

[jtexas]

don't dry 'em with a towel - even a little piece of lint can get in there & mess with ya.

yeah, the dealer ought to have the gaskets in stock, also replace the needle valves & valve seats. It's better to just get the kit - the oem kit cost about $20 more than the sierra kits you get on iboats but includes a new float - but you can usually re-use the float unless its saturated or falling apart.

Johnsons run best on Champions - better not to use NGK if you can help it - my experience has been that the NGK center electrode wears down way faster - others on iboats have blamed NGKs for engine failures - not knocking NGK they are great plugs in the right application but for some reason OMC motors don't like 'em.

get the fuel line from the johnson dealer if its like mine, it's an oddball size

I'm guessing you had to set the idle so high because it was dropping a cylinder - recommend put the spring back on before firing it up again.

[srt4wad]

Ok this is where we are at, i bought new kits today and let the carbs soak over night. I sprayed all holes and I put the new float and gaskets in and put everything together and started the motor up and it is still dropping a cylinder at idel but when I lower the throtle lever it runs fine.

There is one question I have and that is, all the adjusting screws where all tight when I took the carbs apart last night I was going to count the turns and they were all tight. Could this be an issue? I still think we have an issue with the adjustment on the carb rails.

Is there like a rule of thumb for the fuel/air ratio screw for florida? Could that be an issue? I just don't understand how that thing ran fine until we ran out of gas and since then it has been running like crap. It has to be an adjustment. If anybody can give some more advice please let me knwo.

Thanks
Wade

[jtexas]

Whichever cylinder is not getting fuel is also not getting lubrication. To Figure out which one it is, cylinder drop test: with the engine idling momentarily pull one spark plug wire at a time (use an insulated tool) - if the engine RPMs don't change, that cylinder isn't hitting.

I was thinking your carbs had fixed jets - here's the idle mixture screw adjustment procedure (one per carb):
http://forums.iboats.com/bbBoard.cgi...6;gtid=1105882

When you say "carb rails" I think you mean the linkage between the carbs? At idle, are both butterflies fully closed? do they open simultaneously to fully horizontal with the throttle (shift/throttle lever, not the hi-idle lever) in WOT position? Does the throttle cam hit the roller (bottom carb) right on the mark?

by the way, don't rev her up on the muffs any higher than necessary to keep her from dying - needs back pressure on the exhaust to keep bad things from happening.

have you ordered a manual?

[srt4wad]

We did the drop cylinder test and when we pulled the wire the motor died on both plugs. I assume that is fine since we did get a responce (died),

Now, should we be making the adjustments while the motor in in the water not muffs for best results? Also, we noticed that when the motor is at idle the butterflies are almost closed is this right? We ordered the manual last night but, I don't know when it will be here and we want to work on it and get it going again and not have to wait because it kills us when we can not work on it.

Since we do not have the manual right now what should the RPMs be at when idel and WOT?

Thank you for all your help I know we are being a pain but you guys have been very help and we know you guys will be able to help us.

Thanks
Wade and the Swinging Dicks