1977 Johnson - Random Start up problem

[spencroy]

Hello Guys.

Let me start by saying that you have been very helpful in the past, and I had a scare on the lake last night that you guys could point me in the right direction on.

I have a very old 77 johnson that has an intermittant starter issue. The issue is this, randomly the boat will not start (The choke will click if the key is depressed)

There are 2 possible work arounds.
1. I will "wiggle" the Johnson Command Center forward and reverse and sometimes that will cause the safety (or whatever it is) to engage and then I can start (90% of the time this is not the issue)

2. Most of the time I have to take off the cover and tap on the cylinoid. Last night after fishing though it gave me a scare as this did not seem to correct the issue. I kept doing it over and over and finally after giving it a good "go to heck" bash with the pliers it did kick over.

Thus my question is this.
Should I start by replacing the cylinoid? (cost about 35 at local marina)
or start with the starter (who caught part of the brunt of the "go to heck" bash but cost 190 so I dont want to replace unless I am sure its the problem)?

What is the most logical method of troubleshooting (should I try to hot wire it across the cylinoid?)

Recent changes:
Replaced all cables from battery to starter (about 10 months ago)

Just could use some logical troubleshooting advice. Please keep in mind this is my first boat, I am an extreem newbie and a pretty bad mechanic (although I do have the seloc manual for the engine, I do not have the OEM manual).

[ezeke]

Sounds like your neutral safety in the remote control is going bad or sticking.

Don't hot wire around the solenoid. If it needs replacement, replace it.

For emergencies, make up a toggle switch with two alligator clips so that you can actuate the starter solenoid at the engine. Just put one end on the incoming large post and one on the small positive post (small red and yellow or small white wire). They are good to have anyway when you are working on the engine so you don't have to keep running to the control.

Then if the neutral start switch at the remote control hangs up, you can just put the ignition key in the run position and switch the starter solenoid at the engine.

[spencroy]

Man Ezeke,
Forest for the trees. What a great idea (I never think of things like that)! This will help me identify if the root of the problem is in the control or in the starter/cylinoid.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will give it a try.

If the issue is in the neutral saftey switch that is going to be a pain. I took that thing apart once and swore I would never do it again unless I absolutely had to (lost a spring nearly) I have a very odd setup, my forward/reverse was rigged by the previous owner as a separate drive mechanism, thus my command center is only running the throttle. Is there a way to bypass that netural safety switch (is that a very bad idea) Just curious.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[samo_ott]

This is a good temporary idea. And be VERY careful that it's in neutral and set at idle speed when you 'hotwire' the solenoid or over the back you'll go.

[JB]

For gosh sake, Roy. Troubleshoot.

Don't replace anything until you KNOW that it need replacing.

Do the troubleshooting in Engine FAQs, "Outboard won't start".

Leet us know what you find.

[spencroy]

Thanks for the advice Samo, luckly I have my drive and throttle separated so I can make certain I am in netural.

JB, I totally hear you, but my problem is due to my poor understanding of mechanics my troubleshooting is not always the most logical as it relates to an outboard. Here is my current status.

I fished the boat 6 times since my last update. I have had the failure to start up 2 out of about 40 starts. I tried the work around suggested by Ezeke of using two clips and a switch, and the starter will fire just fine each time I tired the work around. I only fliped the work around switch for a second, got the starter to engage, then went back to the command center and the key worked fine.

This causes me to suspect that the solenoid is going out, but I feel like my troubleshooting has not proven that getting back to JB's point. Although I suspect this to be the problem, I dont think I have used a good method to prove this and if the solenoid is fine, then I am just thowing good money after bad. However, for me the decision is more a price issue. The solenoid is only 35 bucks so I figure its the cheapest and easiest way to (possibly) resolve my issue.

If there is a more logical approach I should be taking considering the random nature of the issue I would love to hear it.

[JDumaw]

I am having the same problem with my 1977 115HP Johnson. I have connected a bypass to the solenoid for when the key switch does not work ( I also connected a 2nd choke button right next to it) I have tried to get the control center apart but i am afraid to horse it. I have had the top pad off, the side panel and the shift lever, but i cant seem to get any deeper into it to check the neutral switch or the wiring. How do you get one of theese apart. I appreciate any help you can provide.

jim

[ezmobee]

Welcome to the forum Jim. We don't operate like many other internet forums. We'd rather each person start a new thread for their problem. Helps keep things from getting confusing.

[JDumaw]

I couldnt figure out how to start a new thread. This is my first time in any forum. Sorry if i caused a problem

[ezmobee]

I couldnt figure out how to start a new thread. This is my first time in any forum. Sorry if i caused a problem

No problem at all. Go here: http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evinrude-outboards-24/

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