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  1. #1
    Seaman
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    Default 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    I have bought this solution.

    2 1961 johnson 18 HP on a 15 1/2 ft. starcraft and twin controls with trailer for $600.

    Do these motors have roller bearings on crank and rod ends?

    I would like to run 32 to 1 good quality 2 cycle oil in these motors to keep all my 2 cycle oil mixing standard for all my 2 cycle motors.

    thanks

  2. #2
    Lieutenant Commander kbait's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    OMC calls for 24:1 in those pre-'64 engines. I've run 'em on 32:1 without problems for years, but MANY posters will disagree with that strategy!! Safest bet is 24:1
    It's almost beyond the point of bearable how torturous it is to try to have any dignity in being a Vikings fan..

  3. #3
    Fleet Admiral Texasmark's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    Well boys and girls, I remember when OB oil was a can of Gulf Oil's 30 wt automotive engine lube at the ratio of a quart to 6 gallons of gas........geez what a quagmire. Even remember the red cans of Amalie "Better than it has to be" outboard oil in the early days. Talk about smoke and fouled plugs, and carbon...yucko!!!

    Then in the '60's ScottAtwater (McCullough) comes out with two oil mixes, one is 50:1 in a 16 oz. yellow can as I recall, which is about when the industry developed that mix, and then they had a red can that was 100:1. By the numbers it had to be 8 oz to equate to the numbers but I'd swear that it was the same size as the Winn's Friction Proofing available in the day which was 4 oz; little bitty sucker.

    Anyway, I had a '59 18 hp Rude that I bought new for $400. I was living at home and built a stand for it and kept it in my room (where I slept) so that nothing would happen to it.....my mother was an extremely tolerant person....obviously the fuel tank remained out of doors.

    I went into the USAF and was stationed "afar" and on one weekend when I came home to be with my honey....which is why I joined the service in the first place, I had no money and no professional education.

    So I took my prized possession, that I kept in my room, polished, had maybe 10 hours on it and hocked it for 40 measley $$ so that I could get back to base. The babe, has been my bride for over 48 years now and even though it was tough at the time, joining the service was the second best thing I ever did....you obviously know what the 1st thing is.

    Today BIA has certified oils and it seems that current TCW-3 oils will run anything at a mix ratio of 50:1. How does it compare to the old stuff?????? Apples and oranges. Would I do that? In a heartbeat.

    Mark
    Last edited by Texasmark; December 28th, 2009 at 05:01 PM. Reason: Additional data

  4. #4
    Moderator JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    I fail to understand why so many people ignore the recommendations of the people who designed and built their outboards. I am farther from understanding why they insist of bragging about it.

    The amount of oil in a fuel mix decides how much is in the film seperating moving metal parts from each other. The type of oil is almost irrelevant as long as it is the correct viscosity.

    The type of oil decides combustion characteristics and residue. . .how much ash and carbon are left over.

    OMC said, and BRP says, to use a certain amount of oil to be sure to get the amount of lubrication intended by the designers.

    They also said/say to use oil formulated for optimum combustion and residue in 2 stroke, water cooled (TC-W) engines.

    Why is that so hard to accept??

  5. #5
    Fleet Admiral Texasmark's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    I fail to understand why so many people ignore the recommendations of the people who designed and built their outboards. I am farther from understanding why they insist of bragging about it.

    The amount of oil in a fuel mix decides how much is in the film seperating moving metal parts from each other. The type of oil is almost irrelevant as long as it is the correct viscosity.

    The type of oil decides combustion characteristics and residue. . .how much ash and carbon are left over.

    OMC said, and BRP says, to use a certain amount of oil to be sure to get the amount of lubrication intended by the designers.

    They also said/say to use oil formulated for optimum combustion and residue in 2 stroke, water cooled (TC-W) engines.

    Why is that so hard to accept??
    I gotta tread on this reply very lightly so with all due respect sir:

    My answer to your statement is that the lubrication industry has made enormous strides in refining processes and additives over the years. Additionally, OEM's have improved materials and machining processes to where tolerances are now 1/10 what they were 20 years ago. So, what was the norm at the time of manufacturing (like in 1961) is not the norm today.

    Just like your mentioning of the BIA TCW-3 rating on 2 cycle engine oil; TCW-3 was not around in 1961, nor were the lubrication requirements (and available lubricants) it was designed for.

    Good examples of my point are automotive engines that many can relate to. Back when I was a teen engines ran 45,000 miles on a set of valves and at 90,000 needed an overhaul. Only oils available were single weight, non-detergent and finally detergent was developed which made a remarkable difference in engine longevity as I know you are aware. Today mileages of 250,000 miles are quite common and they are lubricated with multiviscosities and synthetics with improved additives.

    Sorry sir, but I have to go with the flow and stay with the TCW-3 recommendation.

    Respectfully,

    Mark

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    Just to add my $.02,the engines designed and built in the 50's and 60's were designed and built with the then current technology of oils in mind. The synthetics and semi synthetics available today have better lubricating characteristics than those available then. Materials in outboards have not changed much. Bushings (plain bearings) and opposed to roller or ball bearings need more oil to work correctly. Viscosity does matter, as does film thickness and lubricity. Film thickness (the ability to maintain it) and lubricity are better with today's oils. Newer motors use rolling element bearings. Older ones used some sliding element bearings. (Mostly in the pin end of the connecting rods). An older motor was designed with older oils in mind, the clearances were designed for it. Will your engine die a horrible death if you use a lower ratio of a new oil? Probably not. eill it diminish it's life? Possibly. Oil is relatively cheap. The new stuff is cleaner and produces less smoke/fouling/carbon and ash. I usually over add if I am not sure. The difference between 20:1 and 24:1 is negligible. If it was designed for 16:1 and you try 50:1 it will probably reduce its life. Just probably, not certainly. Stay close to what it was designed for and use good oil. Also remember that design is a balancing act between what is best and what is economically acceptable. If you troll a lot you could get away with less, that's what the injected ones do. If you beat it hard, go with more. Rick

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    I agree with the xtra oil mentality..todays oil does burn cleaner and even at double recommendation does not produce too much smoke or cause fouling of plugs. My thought would be to just run all my 2-cycles at 24 to 1..if you start having fouling issues you may need to change..but 32/1 and 24/1 are not that far away. now 50/1 and 24/1 is a bigger difference, so it may be an issue.
    And as for manufacturer recommendations..there are people that know more about a motor than the manufacturer..Kieth Black with his knowledge of Chrysler's Hemi is a great example, he could do things to a Hemi that Chrysler developers never thought of.
    So the manufacturer recommendations are not always the best thing to do..For instance Ford recommends their air breather and filter for their cars and trucks but K&M filters way way out perform them in every measurable way...
    I have found a lot of great advice in this forum that OMC never mentioned or probably even thought about.
    Just my thoughts
    Happy New Year to all....Sparkie

  8. #8
    Moderator JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Texasmark View Post
    I gotta tread on this reply very lightly so with all due respect sir:

    My answer to your statement is that the lubrication industry has made enormous strides in refining processes and additives over the years. Additionally, OEM's have improved materials and machining processes to where tolerances are now 1/10 what they were 20 years ago. So, what was the norm at the time of manufacturing (like in 1961) is not the norm today.

    Just like your mentioning of the BIA TCW-3 rating on 2 cycle engine oil; TCW-3 was not around in 1961, nor were the lubrication requirements (and available lubricants) it was designed for.

    Good examples of my point are automotive engines that many can relate to. Back when I was a teen engines ran 45,000 miles on a set of valves and at 90,000 needed an overhaul. Only oils available were single weight, non-detergent and finally detergent was developed which made a remarkable difference in engine longevity as I know you are aware. Today mileages of 250,000 miles are quite common and they are lubricated with multiviscosities and synthetics with improved additives.

    Sorry sir, but I have to go with the flow and stay with the TCW-3 recommendation.

    Respectfully,

    Mark
    I think you misread me, Mark. The oil mix specs quoted in above posts are current, not left over from 1961, and they require TC-W3 oil. They are what I recommend.

    You will note that BRP has actually gone back to the original 16:1 mix specs for '58 and earlier JohnnyRude engines that have been speced at 24:1 for over 50 years.

    Now, why do you suppose they did that?

  9. #9
    Chief Petty Officer
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    Default Re: 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    Probably had an engineering intern look up the original specs. and put them in a post. They did not look at the old design specs again, i can assure you of that. Rick

  10. #10
    Petty Officer 2nd Class soundchaser's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    What year did OMC go to 50:1 mixture? I thought it was 1967?
    backyard pic.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    Their 15/18/20/25 hp engines switched over to all roller bearings in '58 or so. I would think that the oil quantity would be the same. Some of it would be based on "marketing" concerns. If the other guy is using 50:1 why can't we?

  12. #12
    Moderator JB's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    Quote Originally Posted by soundchaser View Post
    What year did OMC go to 50:1 mixture? I thought it was 1967?
    That was 1964.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 1961 Johnson 18 HP oil mix Question

    It's a crap shoot/game...do what you like with your own equipment, it's yours after all. When new folks come to the board to ask a question, steer them to the manufacturers specs/recommendations as a STARTING point. That puts them in the ballpark for fun on the water...they'll make their own decisions after awhile...may even run it on their own custom mix because "it's mine and I can do so."

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