1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

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dstoica

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I just got this outboard and (although it does run as I tried it out) from what I have read about it it is mandatory to have this impeller replaced.<br /><br />I already bought the service repair manual and a new impeller but I would like to make sure I know what I am doing before starting on it.<br />The service manual does not specifically describe the procedure for impeller replacement but it does describe the procedure to disassembly the whole lower unit. So I am confused as to what is needed to do for impeller replacement versus other things. Problem is that I wouldn't want to perform some extra steps that might lead to trouble later but rather to just do what is needed for my case. Also I would like to reuse the old gaskets / seals if possible, as on one hand I do not really know what is needed (again for this specific job) and on the other hand I couldn't find anything related to this job on ebay etc.<br /><br />Any help would be really appreciated.<br /><br />Thx.
 

rickdb1boat

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Hello dstoica <br /><br />I'm not really sure what your question is. You need to drop the lower unit, replace the impeller and put it back together. Your Manual should have all the instructions you need to perform this job. It is recommended that you replace gaskets, o-rings, etc. when you do the job. But that's up to you and the condition they are in. Here's a little video that may help. If you get stuck on something specific, feel free to ask for help here:<br /><br /><br /> http://www.meegsonline.com/tmd/waterpump.wmv
 

Paul Moir

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

I think we've run into this before. The manual describes how to pull the entire lower unit apart and hides the water pump service in the middle of it.<br /><br />This is a dead simple task on the 33hp. Disconnect the shift rod linkage like in the manual. Then pull the 6 small bolts and one large bolt that hold the lower unit on. The lower unit should then pull off the rest of the outboard. The water pump housing will be right on top of the lower unit. Remove the three screws that hold it on and remove it. If you get the kit with a replacement stainless steel wear plate, remove it too.<br />While the pump housing is off, do not pull up on the driveshaft or it'll pull right out of the lower unit. Normally it's not difficult to get back it, but you run the risk of dumping crud into the lower unit while it's off.<br />Replace the impeller, etc, and then reassemble with fresh grease and a new o-ring on the driveshaft splines. There's a hole in the midsection the driveshaft has to go through first. Have a look with a flashlight and you'll see what I mean.<br /><br />Other than the o-ring, there's no gaskets, etc, you'll need. The aftermarket pump service kits come with a new impeller, wear plate, w/p tube grommet, and O-ring I think. Just as long as you don't take off any of the 7 screws that hold the skeg cap on or the phillips screw on the side of the skeg, you'll be fine.
 

dstoica

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Just want to thank you very much for the very quick answers. Will try to perform this job today and let you know how it went but in the meantime many thanks again.
 

dstoica

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Hello again, unfortunately what was supposed to be a simple job changed into a nightmare. All the screws broke trying to remove them from the water pump. Tried unsuccessfully to drill the screws in (not enough room for the drill machine to drill all the way). Then I tried to take the water pump out although broken screws were in, thinking that I should have been able to slide the pump out of the lower unit and get more room to work on the broken screws but that didn't work either. I thought that pump body was also stuck because of aluminum oxide and used pentrant oil to lose it but still won't come off.<br /><br />I am out of ideas and will probably look for a shop to do this for me. Any other ideas will be appreciated :) .<br /><br />Thx.
 

Paul Moir

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Yeah, sounds like you're working on a salt-water run engine. This is half the reason we replace the impeller frequently: exercise the bolts and get fresh sealant on them.<br /><br />Penetrating oil is worthless on salt water engines. The only tool that works to loosen screws is a torch, preferably powered by propylene although some of the real pros use oxy-acetylene.<br /><br />What do you have right now? All three water pump bolts broke? Are they flush with the top of the pump housing or did they break way down inside?<br /><br />How about the lower unit bolts? How many, and do you have enough of a stud to get vice grips on any of them?<br /><br />Like I implied earlier, dealing with broken bolts is half of what you learn wrenching outboards. It does take a little skill, but what's more important than that is patience.<br /><br />Have you got any parts yet? We may have to sacrifice the water pump housing which will mean a whole new pump from the dealer.<br /><br />Whatever you do at this stage, do not attempt to use any form of EZ-out. It'll make things 10 times worse.
 

dstoica

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Thanks for reply Paul, that makes me feel a little better :) . <br /><br />I went today to a boat repair shop thinking that the experts should be able to get the pump out in no time but boy was I wrong. After taking a look at the lower unit, the guy said that they will have to use the same methods I used, meaning to drill the screws out, and that it would charge me 130 $ / hr at 1 hr minimun with no guarantee also. Amazing!!!<br /><br />I also tried the propane torch but since the screws' heads were already broken I tried to heat the lower unit all around the pump housing and then pour some more penetrating oil. I didn't see any success though. At the same time I was not sure how much to heat this thing so that I don't mess up the lower unit itself in the end. <br />So I might not have heated it enough.<br /><br />In short you are right, all three water pump screws are broken in, almost close to the surface (2 to three threads left on the screw heads). I already tried to drill some smaller holes and then tried to get something in (like a screwdriver head grinded to fit the new hole) and then to unscrew the bolts somehow. No way to get these screws out though and also not enough room for my drill machine to drill all the way through these screws. I stopped at the point where I think if I would go further I would destroy the housing - already touched little bit on the surface.<br /><br />Lower unit bolts are ok, not sure what you refer to but the screws I needed to remove when I took the lower unit off the outboard came out easily.<br />Not sure what the vice grips are but if the question is about enough room to have this lower unit screwed (through these holes) on some board then yeah, no problem here.<br /><br />Thinking what an easy job this would be I did buy the impeller already but I also thought that I might need a new pump kit in case this housing won't come out in the end.<br /><br />I am not sure if the info I provided is good enough but I could take some pictures to show exact image of the problem. Of course if there is any way to post images on the forum.<br /><br />Also I forgot to mention the fact that I talked to a guy that has a machine shop to try and get these pump out, so he'll be waiting for me on Wednesday. I am not sure if it's a good idea and if this guy knows what he's doing. Wouldn't want to make things worse then they already are :( .
 

Paul Moir

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

There's no magic to getting broken screws out, just time and patience. <br /><br />The first thing will be to get the water pump housing off. If the heads of the three screws have broken off flush with it, it's just the studs and aluminium corrosion holding it on. Tap the housing with a hammer and punch around the three screws to help break up the aluminium corrosion into powder, then pry up on the housing. I know there's little to pry against, just do whatever you can. You may consider sawing a couple shallow slots into the housing to gain a better grip. If you can get the housing off with the studs in place, you'll be way ahead. If that doesn't work, heat the area as best you can with the torch and try again. Once you get a little movement the aluminium corrosion will crumble quickly. Pull off the stainless wear plate as well as it's likely damaged now. and will need replacement.<br /><br />Once the housing is off, you'll be able to use Vice Grips on the studs. Vice grips are the American name for locking pliers. I believe they're called Mole Grips in Great Britain and perhaps Australia as well. These are the best tools for this situation, but you want a highest quality pair you can get your hands on. <br /><br />Once you've got your vice grips on, heat the area underneath the screws (in other words, the aluminium of the lower unit) as hot as you can get it with your propane torch, then carefully turn the screws back and forth a little bit until they loosen. The trick here is not to force them and have them break off flush with the surface of the lower unit. Care and lots of heat is the only way.<br /><br />If you're getting worried about excess heat, dribble a little water on the (freshly exposed) driveshaft seal and down the shift shaft. But it's going to be difficult getting the lower unit hot enough powered only by propane.<br /><br />Good luck, and if the screws break off flush with the lower unit housing post back and we'll go on to drilling. You're not nearly at the worst place yet! :)
 

dstoica

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Thanks again Paul, trying hard with the propane torch but so far no luck - although it does seem to get pretty hot.<br /><br />One more question though, should I heat mostly the water pump housing, the lower unit around the housing or both?
 

Paul Moir

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Mostly heat the water pump housing until you get the housing free. When going after the screws, heat the lower unit from below. With the housing off I'll bet the screws will come out relatively easily.
 

dstoica

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Back again with some more questions as I really cannot find this info in the service manual.<br /><br />1. I managed to get out the pump housing but had to use some brute force.Unfortunately I hit a little the outside edge of the lower unit and the surface is not perfectly flat anymore but I am not sure how bad this is. <br /><br />I see there is no gasket between lower unit the other part (exaust unit) so I wonder if it's still needed that this assembembly be perfectely sealed?<br />If this surface needs to be perfectely flat then I will probably need to have it fixed in a machine shop but if does not then I might be able to leave with it. Can you please bring some light on this issue?<br /><br />2. There was lot of rust and dirt under the water pump plate and there is chance some of it went down to the gear unit. Should I do anything about that, would it be enough to have some oil in here just to flush out the dirt or it needs some special attention?<br /><br />3. There is a chance that the driveshaft came out of it's location in the gear unit, during this process of taking the housing out, how can I check that and how can I best fix it in case it's needed?<br /><br />4. How should I clean the lower unit surface where the housing is inserted, as it seems there is a lot of oxidation in this area. Should I use some fine sandpaper or something else? Same for the driveshaft where it enters the water pump, not quite a mirror surface now.<br /><br />5. I will order the full pump kit ASAP, is there anything else that would be better replaced at this stage and I should also order it?
 

Paul Moir

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Good news! :) So the screws came out after you got it off did they?<br /><br />1. No problem, a good seal is not important there. But good fit is, so carefully file any burrs or lumps flush with the mating surface. When you reassemble, you can put a little epoxy or calking or bubble gum (j/k) in the injury to prevent unsightly exhaust bubbles from coming out.<br /><br />2. If it's just a little rust, I wouldn't worry too much. Do an oil change and you'll probably flush most of it out.<br /><br />3. Fortunately, that's impossible. If you've got it all the way into the gearcase, it's in alignment.<br /><br />4. Absolutely. Wire brushes work well for me. Try not to damage the machined surface. Manual says to seal the wear plate down to it with sealant, but many professionals don't. I do, but I don't know if it makes any difference. Water does get trapped in those little cavities though and around here they're all distorted from freezing. It doesn't seem to hurt though.<br /><br />5. If your housing is now worthless, you'll need the full pump. The new plastic pump from Bombardier uses a different impeller and such than the old metal one, but rather than throwing away the housing you can get new stainless steel inserts for it (for much less money). <br /><br />Use gasket sealant on the screws & bolts, put a light coat of grease on driveshaft splines with a new o-ring, and pull the l/u off every few seasons and I doubt you'll ever have that much trouble again.
 

dstoica

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Thanks again Paul all sounds pretty exciting.<br /><br />Unfortunately I didn't get these frozen screws out yet but wanted to make sure I will order everything I need in the meantime (to have everything ready). I think these screws should come out easier now but worse case scenarios will need to drill them out and eventually make a new thread.<br /><br />On point 5 though, not sure what you mean by "stainless steel inserts". What are these inserts, the wear plate? I really wouldn't want to use old pump housing after this much work :) . Currently I found I can buy new OEM water pump kit for around 57 $ from several places.
 

Paul Moir

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Just go easy on them at this point. You've got lots of time to get them out.<br /><br />Since the new housing will be made of plastic, the impeller cannot ride on it or it'll wear it out in no time. So instead they make a little stainless steel cup that pushes into the plastic housing. It naturally wears much slower than the aluminium housing, and when it is finally worn out, you simply replace the stainless cup rather than the whole housing.<br />The wear plate stays essentially the same.<br /><br /><br />$57 is a good price. I think ishopmarine.com has it slightly cheaper, but you may get it faster (or less expensive overall) from your source.<br /><br />Good luck! :)
 

dstoica

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Hi Paul, I ordered the water pump kit but I have now a big concern. <br /><br />The driveshaft seems to move freely up and down with no restriction. I lifted it slowly up and at one point it felt like coming out of some assembly but then went back in when I moved it down. Also when I try to turn the driveshaft it feels like some pinion gear is not properly coupling the second, am able to feel each tooth of the pinion gear going down and the up again.<br /><br />I remember when I first took the lower unit off that the driveshaft would turn smooth and I did not feel this grinding.<br /><br />Just want to make sure if I am still ok or if I got into more trouble and I would now need to open the gear case, hook the driveshaft from wherever it came out. Meaning I would probably need some new seals / gaskets?
 

Paul Moir

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

That's perfectly normal. The only thing that holds the driveshaft in the lower unit is the key on the water pump. Naturally, once the lower unit is installed the crankshaft holds it in.<br /><br />If you lift up on the driveshaft by about 1 inch, it'll uncouple from the pinion gear. It's a splined coupling so it goes right back in.<br /><br />I don't know why you're feeling the teeth meshing now, but I've had the same experience. I think once the outboard is running the pinion gear gets forced upwards a small amount and seats into it's thrust bearing. There's nothing keeping it from coming down but the teeth on the forward and reverse gears, and it gets bumped downwards when you reinstall the driveshaft. Naturally, with the pinion slightly out (lowered) it doesn't mesh properly with the forward and reverse gears and you feel the teeth bump. <br />Either way, don't worry about it because it goes away by itself.<br /><br />If you open the gearcase you'll have to reseal it with sealant and a couple new seals. They aren't expensive but they are tricky. I can take some photos of what's in the gearcase if that will belay your fears.
 

dstoica

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Thanks Paul, that was a quick answer that I anxiously expected :) . <br />I think some pictures with this coupling and lower unit disasembled would be great if it's not much trouble. <br /><br />I kept looking in the manual and the parts catalog and could not really get the picture. Especially there is one sentence that says: <br /><br />"...The driveshaft pinion gear rotates constantly with the operation of the motor and drives two bevel gears which revolves freely on the propeller shaft." <br /><br />I tried to find these "bevel gears" driven by the pinion gear but I could not find them neither in the parts catalog nor in the service manual pictures, could you also bring some light about these parts? What am I missing here?
 

AlexeiVT

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

After reading the description the manual gave, I can see how it would be a bit tricky to visualize.<br /><br />But, since having recently dug into my own lower unit, I can make sense of it.<br /><br />The pinion gear is a smaller longer gear, fixed to the bottom of the driveshaft, and goes in vertically. When the motor runs, this gear is in constant clockwise motion.<br /><br />The bevel gears, are actually the 2 larger gears that occupy the lower unit foot itself, and are free to rotate on the propeller shaft. They are the forward and reverse gear, and are oriented perpendicularly to the pinion gear.<br /><br />The 2 large forward and reverse gears, have the pinion gear come down between them. These bevels on the gears, are where the ears from the clutch dog engage the gear.<br /><br />The clutch dog itself, has two protrusion on each outer edge (4 total). The clutch dog itself, is a splined piece that fits over the small splined section of the propeller shaft. The clutch dog itself, is moved by an articulating collar that pivots on a Phillips head screw on the side of the foot.<br /><br />When shifting, that clutch dog is slid frontward or backward along the splined portion of the driveshaft for F or R resepctively.<br /><br />So, the "bevel gears", I imagine, are what are being referred to as the actual forward and reverse gears in the lower unit...and are describing the physical feature as to how they engage w/ the clutch dog.<br /><br />Try to envision it like this...you have your pinion gear always rotating as it's fixed to the bottom of the driveshaft...The beveled forward and reverse gears are also consequently spinning at the same time as the driveshaft (but they go in opposite directions, one for F, one for R)...The F and R gears are free to spin on their bearing sleeve, so they both can spin at the same time...It's the actual clutch dog that slides on its splines (thus being fixed from free rotation as well) that permits the mechanical connection of forces...consider it a moveable link, so when you select the F gear for instance, and want power from it (remember, it's already rotating), you slide the clutch dog to that side of the prop shaft, the clutch dog ears engage w/ the bevels cut into the gear to recieve them, and now your previously freely rotating F gear, is now temporarily locked/engaged w/ the clutch dog (which is atached to the splines on the prop shaft and thus rotates)...then move to N, you disengage the clutch dog, so now there are no ears engaged.<br /><br />On my '64 40 HP, the pinion gear itself, went up into the rest of the lower unit and bearings several inches...so even w/ the driveshaft removed, things below were still staying where they should.<br /><br />When it comes time for actually reinstalling the impeller, there are plenty of ways to do it, some easier than others.<br /><br />The impellers on these motors are small, and easily set into place. I succeeded by rotating the driveshaft clockwise (and getting in my head how the vanes of the impeller would be bent when doing so)...for my situation, it was easy enough to just use a combination of twisting, and/or just bending and placing the impeller up in the water pump housing. Then when that was done, use sealant on the appropriate mating surfaces, and slide it down over the key. Its the sort of thing that seemed a mystery till you do it the first time, then it becomes relatively easier...sorry the disassembly has been less than fun.<br /><br />So long as you are waiting for parts, and if there is a trace of material to grab on to, you might be well served by trying to get some penetrating oil in what remains, soak and tap...I was often skeptical that it'd do much, but I've had my share of surprises/relief, where I actually felt it helped.<br /><br />If it comes to drilling and tapping...start w/ as flush ground a bolt surface as you can get, and use a center punch and good sharp bit to start...if a Dremel tool is at your disposal, using a burr to ensure you are grinding as close to the center as possible, will be an asset. And true, since it's a small bolt, having a hardened steel easy out screw extractor break in there would be a nightmare indeed to remove, itll be your call.<br /><br />I encountered the same pleasures when pulling apart my motor after decades of being together (and the previous owners not using some anti-seize on the threads)...had to tap two holes...and a bit of patience and things worked out. Best of luck.
 

dstoica

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

Now all makes sense :) . I kept looking for some extra pieces in the puzzle. Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation.<br /><br />And yet another question comes to my mind, is there a problem if I use regular car engine oil to flush all dirt in the gear unit?<br />O maybe then I will have problems not being able to remove it completely?
 

AlexeiVT

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Re: 1967 Evinrude 33 HP - impeller replacement help.

I can't see how it would hurt anything, so long as it's just being used for a short while to get any small foreign matter into suspension.<br /><br />Lower Unit oil, has the advantages of being designed not to foam and to withstand the pressure of the gears and hold a degree of lubrication to those surfaces.<br /><br />But, as I see it...I've been chasing down various leaks in my lower unit for a while (finally replaced all the seals and now it's oil-tight)...but, figure prior to that, each time I ran it I had varying degrees of emulsification of oil to water, and at some points nothing BUT water...so figure oil is certainly better in there.<br /><br />It'll all drain out fairly readily, and whatever small amount of oil residue remains, will be inconsequential when it mixes together with the heavier weight l/u oil.<br /><br />For what it's worth, having the lower unit full of fresh water and sitting for extended periods of time is not a good thing...but also consider that when a leak occurs and water intrudes into the lower unit and washes out the oil, all is not lost...so in theory, even a quick flush of water can't (to me) seem to harm much...its what happens anyway when you get a leak you don't want, just be sure to drain and fill in a timely manner.
 
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