What is real estate going for where you are?

[Old Ironmaker]

There is a thread on the Boat Topics and Questions about the lack of boat restorations going on. Below is my take as to why the less and less you see it. Here in Southern Ontario, actually anywhere within a 2 hour drive from Toronto real estate prices have gone so far out of reality we are waiting not for the "bust" but for the "Nuclear explosion." Average home prices have gone so high in Southern Ontario a 3 bedroom 1.5 bath home with a single garage that comes with a 2 hour commute to work where the jobs are in Toronto goes on average for $500,000.00. I sold the story and 1/2 home I grew up in on a 40'X100' when my elderly parents went into a retirement residence sold for $272,000.00 CDN 3 1/2 years ago and we were happy with that as 3 real estate agents all came in at 249K, all 3 the exact price. That same home sold this past summer for $495,000.00. As I said in that thread the average home in The Greater Toronto Area called the GTA is around $900,000.00. We are planning on selling here this spring and moving outside that 2 hour circle around the GTA. We can buy twice the home for 1/2 of what we should get here, we are on the north shore of Lake Erie, we own the beach. I say that because some say they live on the shore line and you can't see the water from their property, big difference.

What does the average working class (I love when our leaders say middle class, it's working class) 3 bedroom, 2 bath, single garage home on an average sized lot go for and where. I have dual citizenship, who knows you may have a new neighbor from Canada. I spelt neighbor the American way, no "u" eh? When the family had a condo in Charlotte Harbo(u)r, West Florida and I drove down either the I-75 or I-95 I would pick up those local Real Estate brochures along the way and couldn't believe some of the low prices compared to ours, and that was 10 years ago when we sold.

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/gener...g-restorations

 

[zool]

What does the average working class (I love when our leaders say middle class, it's working class) 3 bedroom, 2 bath, single garage home on an average sized lot go for and where[/I].

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/gener...g-restorations

Real estate is location specific here just like anywhere. In New jersey for instance, I could point you to a 3br 2ba waterfront home for $100K -300K+- to another similar 3br 2ba a few towns over for $300K to $900K

overall, Homes in NJ go for $10,000 to 7Mil +-

The US average is

https://www.census.gov/construction/nrs/pdf/uspricemon.pdfe

BTW, Im a certified general real estate appraiser by trade.

 

[jimmbo]

"What is real estate going for where you are?"

Too Much. I'm hoping for another real estate bubble and for it to burst

 

[Old Ironmaker]

Of course real estate is location, location, location. I'm talking a well kept average home in a working, or middle class neighbourhood as our politicos say. I can get an entire block of homes in Detroit for less than 20% of taxed owed, or even free if I commit it to single family homes and folks are buying them and bringing some areas back that were once very nice well built homes. As in a recent series on This Old House. Our 1000 sqft cottage on the lake has been appraised for 550K. In town 3 miles away from the lake might bring 250K, maybe. I'm sure the same home in West Virginia will bring 1/10 of the same place as in SoCal. I looked at the figures you provided, being a flipper since the mid 70's those numbers are very, very close to here in Ontario. I wonder if they are only the lower 48 and don't include the high prices of Alaska and Hawaii and the low prices of the territories?

Thanks for the response and link. Interesting.

 

[roscoe]

I don't know anywhere you would find a home with a 1 car garage unless you were in an older neighborhood (1950's) in a large city.


https://www.coldwellbanker.com/property/1474-MCRAE-CIR-GREEN-BAY-WI-54311/75849323/detail


https://www.coldwellbanker.com/property/N3355-WOODLAND-RD-MEDFORD-WI-54451/91484811/detail


https://www.coldwellbanker.com/property/1225-TARA-MARIE-LN-GREEN-BAY-WI-54313/75833538/detail

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1762-Boland-Rd_Green-Bay_WI_54303_M76209-88604


https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3281-Eastway-Dr_Green-Bay_WI_54311_M85991-96850

 

[Old Ironmaker]

roscoe, 1 car garages are common here in southern On. as they squeeze as much footprint of homes on postage stamp lots, 2 car garages come at a premium. I bought a tract home in 86' and they wanted 500 bucks per linear foot more for a garage, ridiculous. Anything over 35 foot wide lots comes with a premium today. As if there isn't enough room in Ontario. 90% of all Canadians live within 100 miles of the US border. We must like to be close to our friends or like to keep an eye on you. When the US sneezes we get a Tsunami.

I looked at the homes on the links you provided. I didn't even have to guess where they are based on the pics of the first home. A shrine to Saint Vincenzo Lombardi. Does it get cold there? Even with the exchange rate the prices are unbelievable compared to Southern Ontario. I can't build a pole barn here per square foot based on the per sqft cost of those homes. An underground parking space in a condo in Toronto goes for $30,000.00. And that doesn't include condo fees for the parking spot per month separate from the dwelling condo fee.

What strikes me is many homes in the US do not have basements from Green Bay to Florida. Most older homes in Western NY do have basements. 90% of all homes here have basements, some lakeside homes as well. They are making them 8' deep now, 7' was standard, usually 5' below grade and 3' elevated. We don't have a basement. A basement next to a Great Lake can become an indoor swimming pool as a few of my neighbours that had them dug are finding out. They now allow gravity sumps that simply drain downhill with an inline check valve direct to the lake or downhill, conserves energy. I know when we have a power failure someone wants to borrow my spare shallow well pump.

Thanks for the links.

 

[Scott Danforth]

10 years ago, prices in FL were depressed as the bubble had just burst from 11/12 years ago. today, the same homes are worth about 70%-300% more than they were 10 years ago.

Florida is really hard to put basements in since most of the state is only 12' above sealevel as an average

nearly 98% of the homes in Green bay (and most of the midwest) have basements as you need to get the foundation below the frost line. most are 8-10 feet. shorter than that is a "crawl space". The exception is lake-front cottages with pylons/slabs. I lived within a block of Lake Michigan for most of my life and the sump pump only ran in spring. Battery backups for sump pumbs were common in my neighborhood 10 years ago as the power went out almost daily. I simply used a 1000 GPH bilge pump with a float switch, set about 2" higher than the main pump and a battery with a tender (was about 1/5th the cost of a twin battery backup setup with an inverter)

 

[Crazy_Pilot]

I live about an hour north of downtown Toronto in a tiny little town of about 3000 people. We bought our home 3 years ago - bungalow, 3 bed+office, 2 bath, 1.5 car garage, detached, 50x140 lot - for $328,000. Last spring an identical model home down the street was listed at 550K.

All I can say is I'm glad we purchased when we did. Between the increase in prices and tighter lending rules we wouldn't be able to afford anything south of Barrie now.

What we're planning to do is pay off this house (8 years to go), buy a crap shack on the the main street of our town (75x240 lots, huge mature trees, beautiful old homes), knock it down and build something we can enjoy forever. And I don't mean some gaudy 6000 sq ft McMansion. Well built, warm and cozy are all I need. Mostly I just want space for a nice detached workshop.

 

[DeepCMark58A]

My wife and I have owned our 20 acre hobby NW of the Twin Cities for 23 years. We paid $900 an acre for the land and a total of $105,000 for the property. Last week a parcel of land 1.2 acres and a new 1200 square foot house that is right in front of my property sold for $249,000. We have been kicking around the idea of selling the ranch and getting a little place on a lake a little further out from the city. During the research process we discovered it would be cheaper to live on the water in Florida than living on a nice lake in Minnesota. Only thing keeping us in Minnesota is the possibility of grandkids in the years coming up.

 

[dingbat]

“Middle class” is relative depending on your location. The median family income in the country which we live is six figures. Ranked #3 richest county in the county.

Up until a few years ago we had 5 acre minimum zoning. Lots of “estate” farms (mostly horses) and homes in the local area.

A new development down the room has a sign 3-5 acre estate homes starting in the mid $800,000 USD

According to Zillow the average home in the county is $450k. In our immediate area that number jumps to $707k.

Six years ago in the middle of the housing crash we sold our 2400 sq.ft, 1 acre home for $490k USD. @ $550 now.

Homes currently listed range from $5.7m to $389k USD

For reference: $1 USD = 1.28 CAD

 

[aspeck]

Our town (7500 people) is about 8 miles from a 30 mile long lake. We are 30 miles from a larger "College (University actually) Town." In town, a house as you described would be $60K - $140K depending on condition, age, and building type. Out or town in a more rural setting, you are looking at $80k-$125K for the house you describe. A 3 bedroom, 3 bath, 4 car garage home would go for mid $200K's. A good friend just bought a house 2 houses down from us on a .9 ac lot (2 story, 4 bedroom, 3 bath, unfinished basement, 3,000 sq ft, 2 car garage, granite counter tops in baths and kitchen, natural gas heat and fire place, central air, concrete driveway) for $270K. There is a similar home 2 houses up the street from us that they family is doing roof repairs and kitchen repairs on before selling for about the same price. Downside to the house is the neighbor 2 houses down the street ... :facepalm:

 

[southkogs]

Very interesting. I had to go look some stuff up.

I bought my home here in Tennessee outside of Nashville before 2000. I can't find average home price data, but I bought around $150k and I think that was just under what the brand new homes were going for at the time (mine was about 5 years old then). Zillow says estimates it at $275 right now, but I think realistically it's more like $230. BUT, I would have a hard time finding a house the same size in the same situation for less than $300 in the area (by my looking).

Nashville/Davidson County - Median home value for Music City USA is about $209k. But depending on which area you go into the bell curve will change things (Forrest Hills will get you down around $197, where Berry Hill will climb to over $800k)

Williamson County - This is the 16th wealthiest county in the United States and the #30 fastest growing county in the United States. Just South of Nashville, the median home value is $400k. I doubt if you can buy an outhouse in Williamson County under $200k.

Rutherford County (where I am) - Just Southeast of Nashville is the #55 fastest growing county in the United States (my city has almost doubled in size since I got here in '98). Median home value is $179 according to Zillow, but there are less than 1,000 homes for sale right now and they are building them like crazy. I don't think you can find much under $220 in my area, and some of the faster growing areas are more like $250k ... a couple hit $400 pretty easily.

 

[Scott Danforth]

During the research process we discovered it would be cheaper to live on the water in Florida than living on a nice lake in Minnesota. Only thing keeping us in Minnesota is the possibility of grandkids in the years coming up.

depending on which water, insurance on the water in FL is high, Flood insurance is really high on any of the rivers or salt water shores

 

[bruceb58]

Keep in mind that a house in Canadia that is $500K is only $388K in the US.

Between fire and earthquake insurance in CA, my bet is that is way more than flood insurance.

 

[dingbat]

Keep in mind that a house in Canadia that is $500K is only $388K in the US.

Between fire and earthquake insurance in CA, my bet is that is way more than flood insurance.

Found that out when I was courted to take a job in Mira Mesa several years ago.

The real turnoff was the company Controller's home burning down in a wild fire while I was there. Cheaper to keep can goods and a raft in the attic....lol

 

[bruceb58]

I have been evacuated 3 times from my current house. Part of the price you pay for living in paradise.

Mira Mesa is an awesome community. I would live there in a heart beat. Very expensive though.

 

[DeepCMark58A]

depending on which water, insurance on the water in FL is high, Flood insurance is really high on any of the rivers or salt water shores

Bet is comparable to what I pay to heat the house and shop in the winter that goes from October - April.

 

[boatman37]

I live about 50 miles north of Pittsburgh. House prices haven't seemed to change much in recent years. According to Zillow there are 750 homes for sale in my county and the median price is $94,400. I bought my house 19 years ago for $80,000 and added a $30,000 addition and garage. I also replaced all windows, furnace, AC, etc. and my house is worth about $150,000 now so not much appreciation there for 19 years. Zestimate says $117,000 but a few around me have sold recently for $125,000-140,000. A neighbor down the street has his for sale for $170,000 and ours is probably a little bigger and more updated (their son used to play for the 49ers, Titans and Steelers in the 90's). That being said, I live in a place nobody wants to live but have been here my whole life. The closer you get to Pittsburgh the higher the prices get.

 

[aspeck]

You north of Mercer, boatman37?

 

[Old Ironmaker]

Great feedback from you all. Thank you. Even at the exchange rates there seems to be a big divide from areas in the US compared to Southern Ontario, as well there is a big divide here the closer one gets to Toronto and the Niagara peninsula. The higher employment rates and wages are in these areas. What makes me scratch my head is building materials must be so much lower in some US states. It seems also the Rust Belt has depressed real estate values. The cost to build what would be considered a basic new build tract home on a 40'X 100' building lot will cost a buyer $250.00 to $300.00 per square foot CDN. Of course that number balloons when you start upgrading building materials such as custom kitchens exotic hardwoods and baths with high end cabs, hardwood flooring, granite and high end fixtures. And then the cost to build rises the closer one gets to Toronto. In the other thread I mentioned the average price of a home in Toronto is $900,000.00 CDN, in Vancouver Canada the average home price is 1.44 million CDN.

As far as referring individuals as middle class rather than the working class that is my and many sociologists opinions. This my take. The Queen of England, the Royals around the globe, the oil Sheiks of the Middle East, the Billionaire business men of the world those I and many consider Upper Class. If a person that needs to work every day even though wages are in the Millions. Our entertainers, pro athletes, our CEO's that make millions in their short contract tenures are middle class, where does that leave us working Joes and small business Men and Women that may do well and may even have a net worth close to a million bucks or have a few million but sure don't live like millionaires. Would a MD, CPA, Lawyer be put into the same class as a tradesman, a Steelworker, an Ironworker, a Miner, Construction worker, Nurse or a Mom and Pop small business owner and the like? No those I last listed are working class not middle class. Then below the working class are a class of our hard workers doing the minimum wage jobs that require little skills and training, working sometimes more than 2 of these minimum wage jobs and can not make it pay to pay. A digression but I may be forgiven as it's my thread and Dockside Chat.