Bad Shake Down

Big Larry

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
30
Hey! I could really use some help.<br /><br />My family has been saving change in a 5 gal. jug to buy a boat for this and future summers.<br /><br />We finely found a good deal on the open bow type that we wanted.<br /><br />we got a 17 1/2 foot Hawaiian 1977. It sounds old but it is in Great! shape and lots of room in fact we can pass each other on the boat without moving.<br /><br />As much as we wanted an Outboard that will pop up when in trouble instead of go crunch, we had to settle for an I/O, then to make it worse, it ain't a merc cruiser.<br /><br />So today I get off work early and we take the Katy K (my daughters name) down to the lake for the shake down.<br /><br />Before ever hitting the water, I have run this motor which seems to purr and engaged the drive and all felt pretty smooth.<br /><br />Its not my first boat so I think I gotta a fair idea. My Temp stayed cool and my amp meter was up along with everything else looking and sounding well.<br /><br />We launched it at 4:15pm telling the deputy that we were just shaking her down as he explained the lake closed in 45 minute.<br /><br />Right away I was having some trouble with reverse.<br /><br />I just couldn't get no english from it and the last fisherman at the dock said my prop (stern I'm sure) was coming up when I engaged.<br /><br />Well, I brought her around and we throttled off and out of the huge no wake cove felling a little thick but steerable.<br /><br />As soon as we got past the wake zone I brought it up a bit and other than sluggish we were underway.<br /><br />After a few seconds of that I took it up a ways only to find some serious Pinging Going on. I tried backing off to ease things up but it seemed that any significant torque resulted in Pinging.<br /><br />In addition, my temp gage was higher than it should be. Not extreme but probably around 210-220, 3/4 gage. Then I backed down to engage the reverse to find out what was going on with that and died.<br /><br />I restarted twice but died at engagement and then I was dead in the water. I think that I still had plenty of amps but no turn over. It was like I was extremely overheated and lost the ability to have full rotation.<br /><br />It took a good hour to Oar our way to the wake zone and still had an hour of Oar'en to the dock but luckily there was still a boat out after hours and we got in before dark.<br /><br />I continued to attempt a turn over but got next to nothing.<br /><br />A few hours later after dinner and making room for the new boat I hit the key and Ka'Boom, it fired right up like nothing happen.<br /><br />So, I realize the batttery possibilities but something internal is really going on and I don't know how to check.<br /><br />Also, I must have forgotton when to use the fan if you could please go over that with me.<br /><br />We have a Volvo Penta 170, B30 straight six with a 280 outdrive I guess you would call it. Everything looks so damn good.<br /><br />Tonight when I got the numbers off the engine, I again fired up quicky because I didn't have the hose on her and notice some fuel from my front carb leaking on the manifold so I will do some retorqing.<br /><br />I do have a bit of smoke (all white though) and I don't get any noise with fan switch.<br /><br />Please tell me how to check and what to watch for and my family will all send you a big thank you.<br /><br />big Larry & Family.<br /><br />PS. I did just order the 68-93 or what ever manual but it won't be here for ten days...
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Bad Shake Down

Hmmmmm . . . Well first off, welcome to iboats Big Lar!! You'll definitely get some help here. Sounds like a lot is going on and I will leave the majority of it for others who will soon be along. BTW, nice boat. I owned something similar once and still love local California custom boats. Post a pic in the Boat non-repair section when you get a chance. There is a thread called Show Yer Boat II.<br /><br />First thing I'm willing to touch is the blower, which I think you are calling the fan. It should make a very audible noise and you should run it for 5 minutes before starting, to assure that there are no gasoline fumes swimming around in the bilge and/or engine compartment. Ya know . . . boom ;) <br /><br />Second, are you using muffs to run the engine at home? Ya know, piping water from the hose to her? If not, I think I may know why she is overheating . . .<br /><br />Third, do a search here for Volvo drives and info on them coming up in reverse. I have seen it discussed here more than once. There is a locking mechanism that ain't working in your case. Maybe try: Volvo popping up reverse, in the search function.<br /><br />I don't want to touch the won't crank thing except to ask when she wouldn't turn over did she just do nothing with the key turn? Or did you hear a wwuuuh humph? As in tried to turn but then stopped. This info may help the others I mentioned above.<br /><br />Also, would be important to know if that engine has closed cooling. I think many of the Volvos of that era were. This will help with the overheat discussion.<br /><br />Good luck!! If anybody can get you going, this forum can.
 

paulrfrancisco

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
341
Re: Bad Shake Down

Overheating will cause pinging... and a hot engine gets very tight... That could be why while hot it would not turn over and perhaps why it stalled in the first place.. I hope you didn't cause any damage, but once cool it turned over and starts but white smoke is not a particularly good sign.. maybe a blown head gasket... Good luck.... You'll surely find a ton of help here...
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Bad Shake Down

I have to ask the obvious question first, when you ran the boat out of the water did you have water hooked up to the drive with muffs? If not, you burned up your raw water impeller. If you did have water to it, then YOU didn't burn it up, but it may have been bad to begin with. They are only good for a couple of years. <br />Your problem with the drive is in the reverse lock mechanism on the drive. It could be out of adjustment, the paws worn, or covered with shells, barnicals etc. <br />When the drive kicks way up, it can allow the ujoints to hit the tail end of the bellhousing. Time to pull the upper gear box, and check everything. IF the bellows is more than 2 years old, time for a new one of those also. Remember, if water gets into those bellows, and into the bearings in the engine bellhousing, you have to pull the engine to replace them.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Bad Shake Down

Here is a link with some more info on the reverse lock.<br /> http://www.marinemechanic.com/volvo/tilt_lock_1.htm <br /><br />I sure hope that manual you ordered isn't a Clymers manual. That is about the worst thing you could order.<br />Find your local Volvo Penta dealer and order a manual for your engine and drive.<br />The Volvo number for the engine manual is 7723640<br />for the drive the number is 7731624.
 

RubberFrog

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
4,268
Re: Bad Shake Down

My old bayliner had the same symptoms last year- dying unexpectedly and then not cranking till it cooled down. Turned out my upper unit was locking up..... zoiks!
 

fendersfender

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
317
Re: Bad Shake Down

check your timing....too far advanced will cause spark knock and if too far advanced will cause a motor to not start until its cool. as for overheating, change the impeller
 

Big Larry

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
30
Re: Bad Shake Down

Could the Drive shaft be in such bad shape its killing the engine to turn the prop?
 

Big Larry

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
30
Re: Bad Shake Down

Yes, I did have water hooked up when running on trailer.<br /><br />It seems a little like the drivetrain from the engine to the prop my be taking away all I got.<br /><br />I guess I should pull appart the bottom but I am a little nervese without the manual.<br /><br />Please tell me if I should be O.K. pulling down and won't have a bunch of parts pop out on me.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Big larry
 

Reel Poor

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
5,522
Re: Bad Shake Down

Larry I would drain the gear lube first. If its clean and has no metel shaveings and there is no water in it I wouldnt pull the drive apart.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Bad Shake Down

Since the boat is new to you, it's time to get yourself the manuals and do some engine checking. Do a compression test and look at the condition of the old spark plugs. Check the timing and advance timing, the weights may be stuck with it advanced causing the timing problem. Do a full tuneup. Points, condenser, cap, rotor, check the plug wire resistance. Check the fuel filter for water.<br />Replace the impeller, change the gear lube in the drive as stated by Reel Poor, also check the ujoint bellows for water. Those bellows are only good for a 2 to 3 years max. If water gets in there and rusts the ujoints and intermediate bearings, they tighten up and cause problems also.<br />But without a manual, don't go pulling the drive apart. You would also need all the orings and seals to put it back together, they are NOT reusable.<br />I can get you the tuneup specs for the engine.
 

Big Larry

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
30
Re: Bad Shake Down

Dear Don,<br /><br />It appears the guy before me just did all of that.<br /><br />Everything was cleaned, look's like full Tune up with cap & wires. Looks like a reman starter and a clean new tank of fuel and the old impeller<br /><br />also, I found a bottle of fuel lead with approx one tank full used.<br /><br />Today I ran it out of the water a bit. I put the thingy on it and turned on the water.<br /><br />I also put the stern drive down. At first, It did not want to turn over but I think it was in gear.<br /><br />When in "n" it started right up and ran great for 5 minutes.<br /><br />My temp gage did rise over the middle but stayed there. I then brought it up to 5K rpms and held it. I figure this would be about 40 knotts.<br /><br />My temp started heading to the warp head range and I got allot of white smoke billowing around the stern drive.<br /><br />It seems like a car with a non functioning water pump.<br /><br />I don't know what to check.<br /><br />Tomorrow I was going to pull a hose and see what's up.<br /><br />Please help me...
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Bad Shake Down

Did you check the raw water pump impeller????<br />This is not the same pump as an auto person would call a water pump. That in marine terms is a circulating pump.<br />Also, running at 5000 rpm without a load is not a good test and doesn't come close to representing 40 knots. That can only happen under load. <br />About all your test showed is that you still have a water circulation problem. You also need to check things like the thermostat, the hose connection on the out drive (they corrode away and suck air, not water) also check for plugged exhaust manifold. With steam, you may have a bad head gasket, or cracked head or block. But the steam could also be from very little water and a whole lot of hot exhaust gasses.
 

Big Larry

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
30
Re: Bad Shake Down

Hey Don, Boy' I really need that manual. I am assuming that my RAW water pump is the other pump looking grey thingy.<br /><br />It was just changed as per the seller and I have the old impeller.<br /><br />Also, I seem to get quite a bit of water gathering in the well when running the motor.<br /><br />So, there is nothing like a real load to test huh?<br /><br />I will do that again now that I have a trolling motor, rowing a powerboat back to the dock is to say the least, very difficult.<br /><br />I really wish to thank you for this help.<br /><br />Big Larry...<br /><br />PS. I have two air scoopes mounted on the rear deck of my boat. Inside the engine compartment are two dryer vent hose connected at top but just sitting at bottom open and not connected to anything.<br /><br />Is that what they are, just natural air vents?<br /><br />Thanks
 

Reel Poor

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
5,522
Re: Bad Shake Down

Those are fresh air vents. The vent facing rearward on the boat should have a blower motor (afixed in the dryer hose) between the bildge and the vent. It should be wired to suck the fumes out of the bildge and exhaust the overboard.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Bad Shake Down

When you were running the engine, did you get any water out the back of the drive, or under the transom shield. To show water actually getting out of the engine through the exhaust?<br /><br />Here is a flow diagram of your cooling system.<br /><br />
Cooling%20system%20AQ170.png
 

Big Larry

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
30
Re: Bad Shake Down

I see this diagram is very basic but are you telling me that the Water Pump/Cir., Pump is to keep block cool and the sea pump is for the oil cooler only?<br /><br />And as far as water out the back, I had no rooster tail or anything like that. At the time of running I was in the boat.<br /><br />I have allot of water on the ground but allot of water is gushing from the water thing-a-ma-gegy connected to my house water hose.<br /><br />I'm not sure what a transon shield is, I think that it is the divider that is while siliconed to back of boat.<br /><br />Now that I have your diagram, I am going to slice in somewhere to see if I have water flow.<br /><br />It will be raining the next couple of days as I will check messages again before going back to it.<br /><br />Hopefully my manual will get here. I really wish that paid the extra shipping.<br /><br />I did call the previous owner last night, not to complain, the boat is great, I would have paid 4 times the amount for it.<br /><br />I was calling about picking up the Bimini and he mentioned how it was going.<br /><br />I told him that it OH & Died in the shake down and that Reverse was popping up.<br /><br />He stated that the marine shop (I thought he did it) checked everything and did $700.00 in tune up and that it was running fine.<br /><br />A little warm but fine.<br /><br />He asked if I removed the stern lock from the back before going out. I stated that I lifted up the stern and swung it downward away from the lock.<br /><br />He said that it is supposed to come off all the way???<br /><br />Also, everything does look very clean and greased.<br />Prop is in excellent condition & very tiny external wear on the outdrive.<br /><br />Man' I need help!!!<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Big Larry
 

Big Larry

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
30
Re: Bad Shake Down

I see this diagram is very basic but are you telling me that the Water Pump/Cir., Pump is to keep block cool and the sea pump is for the oil cooler only?<br /><br />And as far as water out the back, I had no rooster tail or anything like that. At the time of running I was in the boat.<br /><br />I have allot of water on the ground but allot of water is gushing from the water thing-a-ma-gegy connected to my house water hose.<br /><br />I'm not sure what a transon shield is, I think that it is the divider that is while siliconed to back of boat.<br /><br />Now that I have your diagram, I am going to slice in somewhere to see if I have water flow.<br /><br />It will be raining the next couple of days as I will check messages again before going back to it.<br /><br />Hopefully my manual will get here. I really wish that paid the extra shipping.<br /><br />I did call the previous owner last night, not to complain, the boat is great, I would have paid 4 times the amount for it.<br /><br />I was calling about picking up the Bimini and he mentioned how it was going.<br /><br />I told him that it OH & Died in the shake down and that Reverse was popping up.<br /><br />He stated that the marine shop (I thought he did it) checked everything and did $700.00 in tune up and that it was running fine.<br /><br />A little warm but fine.<br /><br />He asked if I removed the stern lock from the back before going out. I stated that I lifted up the stern and swung it downward away from the lock.<br /><br />He said that it is supposed to come off all the way???<br /><br />Also, everything does look very clean and greased.<br />Prop is in excellent condition & very tiny external wear on the outdrive.<br /><br />Man' I need help!!!<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Big Larry
 

Big Larry

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
30
Re: Bad Shake Down

I see this diagram is very basic but are you telling me that the Water Pump/Cir., Pump is to keep block cool and the sea pump is for the oil cooler only?<br /><br />And as far as water out the back, I had no rooster tail or anything like that. At the time of running I was in the boat.<br /><br />I have allot of water on the ground but allot of water is gushing from the water thing-a-ma-gegy connected to my house water hose.<br /><br />I'm not sure what a transon shield is, I think that it is the divider that is while siliconed to back of boat.<br /><br />Now that I have your diagram, I am going to slice in somewhere to see if I have water flow.<br /><br />It will be raining the next couple of days as I will check messages again before going back to it.<br /><br />Hopefully my manual will get here. I really wish that paid the extra shipping.<br /><br />I did call the previous owner last night, not to complain, the boat is great, I would have paid 4 times the amount for it.<br /><br />I was calling about picking up the Bimini and he mentioned how it was going.<br /><br />I told him that it OH & Died in the shake down and that Reverse was popping up.<br /><br />He stated that the marine shop (I thought he did it) checked everything and did $700.00 in tune up and that it was running fine.<br /><br />A little warm but fine.<br /><br />He asked if I removed the stern lock from the back before going out. I stated that I lifted up the stern and swung it downward away from the lock.<br /><br />He said that it is supposed to come off all the way???<br /><br />Also, everything does look very clean and greased.<br />Prop is in excellent condition & very tiny external wear on the outdrive.<br /><br />Man' I need help!!!<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Big Larry :D
 

Big Larry

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
30
Re: Bad Shake Down

Also, the other two air scoops. They are supposed to have dryer hose dangling?<br /><br />The center one facing backward is connected to a blower but the other two just dangle.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Big Larry
 
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