Land on water, crazy idea. Will it work?

[muskyfins]

On the chain of lakes where I boat is a bar on pier supports. Once upon a time it was an actual island, but all the land has eroded away in the last 100 years or so and now is fully on pier pilings. It is a big place that can hold a couple thousand people. Probably on the range of 150 ft x 300 ft with 3 levels. Long story but I have worked security there as a part time fun gig for the last 6 years. (mind you I have kids older than most of the bouncers)

Anyway, feasibility is terrible. We're a little over a mile from our land base. Everything that comes there has to be brought by boat.-food, water, booze, fuel, gear, supplies, etc. Everything also must leave by boat-people, waste, garbage, poop, etc. We have 3 large diesel generators to provide electricity. It's an ordeal when one goes down and we're one mile from land and half hour total from hardware store. There is no utility service so we have large barges with fresh water to go out and waste to go back to be pumped out. Try loading 1000 cases of beer every weekend.

Some of these issues may not be the case for this floating city idea, but there will be different ones. IMO a floating barge is more realistic. Cruise ship sized that can house an infirmary, handle waste and utilities and be moved to port when necessary. It might be possible to have an upper deck as an agriculture center, but I doubt you could grow enough food to sustain very many people.

 

[coinmaster]

Clean water can come from boiling sea water which would be powered by solar/wind/hydro which are all readily available in the middle of the ocean. Food can come from fishing and green houses.
Someone asked for a sketch of my idea so I made a rough 3D model of my idea in the attachment. The sphere's are the buoys.
The design would be modular so you would just keep linking those together.

I already know that lots of people are "working" on ideas like this, in the same way people have been "working" on flying cars. Most of those claims are many years old.
It's not really going to happen in the foreseeable future so forget them.
What I want is opinions on the design, what materials I might use, and what it might cost.

 

[MTboatguy]

Flying cars are a reality, they marketed them in 1963 and next year there will be 2 companies that are again offering them for sale. Also, we have had Boat Cars, I owned one when I was 16 years old.

 

[muskyfins]

What I want is opinions on the design, what materials I might use, and what it might cost.

Polyethylene. It's cheap. It floats. It's non toxic. Weldable. Very high strength to weight ratio.

 

[gm280]

You're talking about a mere 10,000 square feet area. The average cruise liner is many many times that size and still can't negate the ocean waves and such. So unless you have plans for tens of miles long side areas, I don't see it working. So many obstacles to over come that the money issue alone will squelch such ideas. I like dreaming about new ideas, but they have to be realistic and feasible as well or never going anyway. If you were to take New York City and somehow move it out onto the ocean water, it would be destroyed quickly because it isn't big enough to settle the ocean actions. People have no idea how powerful our oceans actually are... Water is very heavy and carries a lot of energy with its movement! But then who am I to squelch your ideas... JMHO!

 

[coinmaster]

I'm aware ocean movement can't be negated without massive real estate. Surely you can reduce it to a non disruptive level after a certain amount of surface area is reached, the question is what that amount is. Also polyethylene is not durable or long lasting enough for a floating island, it needs to last a long long time. My current assumptions are fiber glass and steel, but I wouldn't be surprised if better materials exist I don't know about.

 

[muskyfins]

fiberglass and steel are both susceptible to water intrusion. PE is not. Is is also easily UV stabilized and does not decompose. It would last hundreds of years in sea water/UV application.

 

[coinmaster]

So it seems, I thought it was the opposite. Pricing info seems to be a pain to find. Does anyone know a good polyethylene manufacturer?

 

[GA_Boater]

Read this and then figure out how to build something better - http://www.terradaily.com/news/energy-tech-05zzzzzzp.html

This is the Mars oil platform after a hurricane, the circled part is a little catty-waumpus;



And the Typhoon oil platform, before and after a hurricane. The pic in the lower right shows the anchor system used.



Yep, your little hut on the water will flip in a minor storm. But the grass will never need mowing again.

 

[coinmaster]

No Title

What if I did something like this. It should counterbalance in the event of a flip. Plus it's more practical for storage and living.
I think the main worry is how these things would interact in a storm while chained together. The bonding mechanism would have to be super strong.
But then again maybe not because the bottom section would be filled with air.

 

[Scott Danforth]

its been done with milk jugs http://ecoble.com/2007/11/18/250000-bottles-amazing-recycled-mexican-island-paradise/

 

[coinmaster]

No Title

A counterbalancing system would have to work like this, assuming the structure would float on it's own. But then again it may not work if I string enough of these together. Back to the drawing board lol.

its been done with milk jugs http://ecoble.com/2007/11/18/250000-...land-paradise/

I already know it's been done. you can pay certain companies for your own man made private island if you want. I want a structure that focuses on expandable land.
I don't think a floating plot of sand on top of water bottles is going to withstand the oceans very well lol.
I think the only true unflippable design would have to be one that goes downwards instead of outwards.

 

[coinmaster]

Here. This is something that won't flip and can be made expandable pretty easily. I extended the living space downward instead of outward. The scale is a bit off but it is similar to my other design except it put most of the mass downward so there's no way it can flip unless the oceans tear asunder. the topside could have a ground layer overtop of the buoys allowing for expandable land and it would still maintain it's unflipability, especially considering how heavy polyethylene is if I do indeed use it.

I think the main issue with this design might be increased susceptibility to the ocean movement. Even with expansion it seems like going downwards allows the structure to ring like a bell. I don't know how much movement goes on under the waves compared to the surface though, perhaps the water resistance will actually reduce ocean movement.
Also there's an issue of how large the buoys would have to be or what kind of device I would use for buoyancy.

 

[Bayou Dave]

This may give you some insight into having your own country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand

 

[coinmaster]

I can worry about my own country later, that's really not the main objective here, pretty off-topic lol.
Back on-topic, it seems that industrial buoys are made of polyethylene as well. So in theory the entire structure from top to bottom could be made of the stuff. Thanks for the advice muskyfins.

 

[Bayou Dave]

I brought it up because of your post yesterda and thought you wanted your own country. Which would be sort of cool...

"The entire idea from this sprang from a news story I heard. Some guy found an "unclaimed" plot of land in the middle east and decided to try and become king of it.
Needless to say his plan didn't work but it made me think how cool it would be if he actually claimed it.
Then I realized that most of the ocean belongs to no one and no one seems to be making a real effort at putting any real estate on it"

 

[coinmaster]

It's pretty irrelevant if I can't get some floating land out there, first thing is first. I don't think it would be wise for anyone to actually make a recognized country in the ocean anyway. If every rich guy starts making their own "country" it won't end well. I prefer the oceans remain no-man's land.
That being said, my citizens will all refer to me as "Supreme Leader".

Based on scattered information I've found on the internet, 20,000 gallons of polyethylene should cost roughly $100,000 and judging off of my memory of a 20,000 gallon fish tank I used to help maintain that may be enough to create the hollowed submerged section. I should probably guesstimate another 40,000 gallons for the topside and the buoys and some headroom making an estimate of around $300,000 for the structure.

As far as estimates go, It doesn't get any more rough than that lol.
I don't know what it's strength per pound is or what thickness is needed for a submerged living container or for buoys. I'll have to call some people.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Water World........

 

[GA_Boater]

What if I did something like this. It should counterbalance in the event of a flip. Plus it's more practical for storage and living.
I think the main worry is how these things would interact in a storm while chained together. The bonding mechanism would have to be super strong.
But then again maybe not because the bottom section would be filled with air.

Now you designed a Super Fishing Bobber. And it's going to end up laying on it's side. You need to start thinking about ballast, not filling the thing with air. It's never going to be a stable platform, no matter how many are chained together.

Have you given any thought to maritime insurance and law?

 

[coinmaster]

Well like I said that model is off scale, the flotation would have far more surface area than that. Though you make a good point. I would imagine if the surface area was large enough it would prevent it from going flop side,
As for the law, can they tell me what to do in the middle of the ocean? One thing at a time, I'm pondering on design first.