The Johnson Curse continues...

[Nathan S]

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[Sixmark]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

If you search the forum here there is a replacement fuel pump available for bypassing the VRO which has served people well. Some of the aftermarket electric pumps tend to be more problems than they are worth.

FYI, any shop that says to only load/unload your boat in an area that doesn't require a minimum idle should not be in business.....run away fast. They would have done better to tell you to fix the problem.

One last note, if you paid them to fix the problem and it still persists then you have every right to take it back to them and make them fix it properly, to many people are scared to go back to a place and make them do what they were paid to do in the first place.

 

[ezeke]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

Most 1994 200HP models have adjustable idle needles which should be initially set at 2-1/2 turns out from gently seated. You may want to check that the current settings are in that range.

 

[Nathan S]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

I'll search for the pumps.

I know the idle mixture screws are less than 1 turn out from seated. They came back from the first shop anywhere from 1/4 turn to 3/4 turn out. I am not 100% where they are now, but somewhere less than 1 turn. I started at 2 1/2 turns out at one point in the past. You have to hold the choke in to get it to stay alive.

 

[ezeke]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

I'm surprised that the engine will idle at all with the needles closed that tightly.

Notice the first sentence in the FAQ: "...these adjustment are for the older engine. 1980 and earlier, and the current small hp ob's. not for fixed jet outboards".

It's best when working on engines like yours that you follow the factory service manual's specifications. carburetor mixture adjustments are found in the Fuel System section under Carburetor Mixture Adjustment.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

Usually if you have to bump the choke its a lean problem and due to:
1) Float levels misadjusted
2) Carbs misadjusted
3) VRO weak
4) Weak crankcase pressure to drive VRO (piston skirt)
Flooding is usually :
1) float levels
2) diaphram in VRO
3) idle timing low
and carbs CANNOT be adjusted on a hose, has to be in water,trimmed down,in gear and un-tied.....

 

[Nathan S]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=244013 is th FAQ I was talking about. I never tried to adjust the carbs outside of under a load, nor had anyone else.

Before I took it to the first shop, I started at 2 1/2 turns out and never could get it to idle right. I never got it to respond to the adjustments. They got it running back to 5800 rpm WOT, and idling ok for short periods and had the mixture screws less than 1 turn out. It actually wasn't rich enough because you still needed to tap the choke at times to keep it alive.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

you have 3 jets in each one those carbs, all have to be removed, and cleaned. carb can be fine today, and pick up trash tomorrow. do you have a fuel/water separating filter, when was filter last changed.

you have a primer, not a choke. the primer squirts fuel directly into the intake manifold, bypassing the carbs. this leads me to believe you do not have a fuel pump problem, but a carb problem.

did you link n sinc the timing and carbs?

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

Could it be that the 7psi electric fuel pump is causing it to flood at low RPM's?

 

[VI-Doug]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

Lean sometimes and rich at others - almost has to be flooding the bowls. I don't have the diagram in front of me, are these float needles spring loaded? If so, are the springs missing? That could cause intermittent flooding.

You don't need much fuel pressure at all. Gravity would almost do it. Try 1-2 PSI fuel pressure. I hear electric fuel pumps are bad news. Also, what is the pump connected to? The vapor separator inlet? I don't think that will work. Vapor Sep needs to be under negative pressure. Do you know that the pump is maintaining the pressure and not spiking at times?

 

[Craig-]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

Has the motor ever run right since it was rebuilt?

 

[JustJason]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

In a lot of multicarb engines, the jets are not the same size in the bottom, middle, and upper bank of carbs. Have you pulled all the jets, read the numbers off them, and compared them to the manual?

 

[Nathan S]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

The jets are correct. I have checked several times. The high speed is .002 larger. I at one point richened the idle and intermediate and it ran good for a while. It had a slight stumble but nothing bad and idled overall pretty good. It finally got to the point tho that it was too rich to run and I had to put the stock jets back in.

Yes there is a fuel water separator. It was changed when the carbs were done. Lync and sync has been done several times by me and by the first shop.

The needles in the float bowls are not spring loaded. The idle mixture screw is tho. Without looking I am not 100% but I believe it fuel goes from tank > water separator > Fuel pump > regulator > to bank that separates it to each carb. The gauge in the line shows 3.5 psi. At idle it will push up to 5 psi.

 

[d.boat]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

Haven't seen anywhere that you've consulted the OEM service manual, which may be the key here. It seems to me you're going in circles and might just have to go back to the beginning w/ the carbs. Have you considered getting an OEM service manual and re-doing the carbs, starting from step one? Good luck.

 

[Nathan S]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

I have the OEM service manual and it along with the FAQ is I used it to do the carbs.

I went ahead and pulled them off today. Little gas in the jets but no crud. Turned each carb upside down tried to blow air in it, but the floats stopped it. When turned right side up, air will blow through freely. I went ahead and took the bowls off. The needle tips are in good shape. The floats are level with the gasket surface. This is in conjunction with the oem manual that says they should be level with the gasket surface +/- 1/32". I used a straight edge to verify. All passages are clear. No crud behind any of the idle mixture screws. The only thing I could find wrong were some of the carb-to-throttle plate oring gaskets were broken (2 of 6).

Do the floats need to be slightly higher on the curved side of the C shape?

And the fuel setup is correct. It goes straight to the carbs. It has a T connector that provides fuel to the primer. Also as a note, I have tested the fuel primer it is not leaking.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

A couple of questions.

1- what spark plugs are you running?
2- when you say you richened up the idle and mid range jets, did you go bigger or smaller?
3- are you running with the airbox cover on or off?

OK, so there's 3 questions...........

 

[Nathan S]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

The high speed went up from 62D to 64D.

Went down in size on the idle and intermediate. (size 35 to 33 and 42 to 39)

Airbox is always on.

Plugs are Champion QL77jC4 right now (What the manual reccomends). At some point earlier there were Champion QL78YC which is what I think they are supposed to be. I put the QL77jC4 in a couple days ago because they were new and I already had them.

 

[VI-Doug]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

"It finally got to the point tho that it was too rich to run and I had to put the stock jets back in."

Why did it get richer over time? Something changed. Are you running ethanol? Hope not. Do the floats still float? Maybe they are soaked up a bit.

 

[nymack66]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

First and foremost I feel your pain.
I will recommend you remove the electrical fuel pump and install one as recommend previously here.
Remove all your re-circulation hoses,clean all lines and check valves, test with a syringe as recommend in your service manual.
Check your reeds could be the culprit. Remove the air box and watch or test for blow back or spitting ...
As for your Air Jets higher the number is more air which equates to running leaner not richer you need to note this.
Hang in there you can resolve it, just follow the process of isolation.
I notice a previous question was asked which is important did it EVER run correctly after the rebuild or before?
BTW what is the model number of your engine, I am looking at the 1994 200 Johnson and can clearly see fixed jets yet you mentioned adjustments ?

 

[Nathan S]

Re: The Johnson Curse continues...

"It finally got to the point tho that it was too rich to run and I had to put the stock jets back in."

Why did it get richer over time? Something changed. Are you running ethanol? Hope not. Do the floats still float? Maybe they are soaked up a bit.

I actually have ran very little ethanol gas. I am lucky enough to have 2 stations where I live now that are ethanol free. Where I use to live, one station was ethanol free up until the last few months I lived there. For the most part it has all been ethanol free gas. When I have had to run ethanol fuel I only buy enough to burn it up within the week and I always add seafoam or stabil.

For the recirculating valves. I checked the old ones and had a couple that were missing the screens and a couple that were some what "sticky" so I replaced them all when I rebuilt it. I did find a hose that had a cut in it after installing them, but that was fixed when the problems first started. None the less I will double check them again. I haven't checked the reeds, I will do that asap.

Ran great before the rebuild, ran great until I put the thremostats in. The owner before me never ran it with thermostats unless it was cold outside. Then I made abot a 6 mile run and was idling into a pocket and the #3 wrist pin came out, never been like it was afterwards. It has ran fine at WOT and ran fine at an idle since the rebuild, but not necessaraly at the same time. There has been a problem between idle and WOT the whole time since the rebuild. Generally a stumble/bog/stall when going from idle to WOT, which seems to be from the carbs "loading up". Idle for a few seconds you can hear it and see the rpms drop until it cuts out. If you do not idle or rev it up it will plane out without stumbling or bogging. It has been supressed to the point at times it was tolerable, but just seems to get worse and worse.
Yes there are fixed jets. Currently there are the stock idle and intermediate and the .002 larger high speed installed. I ment adjustments on the idle mixture screws.

Model is J200STLERK