Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

[xanthras]

So we have a 3.0 merc that has had issues starting. I read all the sticky's but have a question. When I jump a wire from 12v to the + on the coil the thing fires up super fast.

We swapped out the solenoid to a different one that was working, it will start, but not nearly as fast as when the jumper is attached. It does eventually start, but it takes a few more tries. Is this normal? Or is my solenoid sticking?

One guy I talked to said to jump the two smaller terminals on the solenoid and call it a day. Will that do damage? I know that connecting a jumper from a 12v source to the + coil will burn points, but I think that terminal with the yellow/red only has power when you are starting right?

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

From the wiring diagram Manual 13,4A-4: You should have two wires going to the + terminal of the coil. A purple one (resistance wire) that provides reduced voltage to the coil when running, and a purple/yellow wire from the starter that provides full voltage to the coil during starting. That p/y wire should preform the same function as your jumper wire. You may have some corrosion preventing full voltage from reaching the coil. I never jumper anything (permanently). Good luck.

 

[xanthras]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

Alright I get that. I have the resistance wire(mine is white for some reason). I have the purple/yellow wire off the solenoid that goes to the slave solenoid I think - mine doesnt go to the coil itself. What I am wondering about is the other purple wire that is on the other (3rd post) of the solenoid that goes to the + side of the coil?

So to sum it up. On my + side of the coil I have a white resistance wire that goes into the harness and a purple/grey stripe that goes to one of the smaller posts of the solenoid.

The Purple/grey one is the one I was considering jumping to the yellow/red wire on the other small post on the solenoid. Or maybe I am just lost.

Thanks!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

The white lead goes to the shift interupt switch.The Y/R is a momentary hot when you turn the key.
Check voltage at the coil when you turn the switch.Check voltage on both sides of the coil.Maybe a weak coil.J

 

[Kainon]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

you should have 8v-9v at the coil when running, and 12v when starting(cranking) to compensate for draw on battery and to help bring a little more spark to the excitement.

 

[xanthras]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

Alright. All awesome info that I can check out. Sounds like I am not getting that full 12v on cranking.

Anyone know what that other purple wire off the smaller post on the solenoid is? Should I be checking for voltage on that? It is not on the same post as the Yellow/Red one, it is on the other small terminal.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

Anyone know what that other purple wire off the smaller post on the solenoid is? Should I be checking for voltage on that? It is not on the same post as the Yellow/Red one, it is on the other small terminal.

This is according to the diagrams, sounds kind of screwed up. according to the manual: If you have the correct solenoid you should have a y/r wire on one small terminal and a black going to ground on the other. the y/r gets 12 volts from the ignition switch and activates the solenoid which provides +12volts to the starter solenoid r/y wire. That purple wire I think may be your resistance wire that is supposed to be to the coil. The second small terminal on your solenoid is supposed to go to ground. See if you have voltage there when you hit start. If you do you have a "switch" type solenoid rather than a "standard" solenoid. Just needs to be wired a little differently. should be no problem...maybe. Does slave have small terminals on side or on top?

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

look like this: A http://www.mercruiserparts.com/showSpecialPicture.asp?pn=65057T1

or like this: B http://www.mercruiserparts.com/showSpecialPicture.asp?pn=96158T

 

[xanthras]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

I am pretty sure the pictures you linked me to are of the slave solenoid. I am talking about the solenoid that is attached to the starter motor. See my attachment. I am wondering about the P/G post. I have a Purple/Grey wire going from there to my Coil +.

Unless you are telling me that my slave solenoid is where my issue lies?

Thanks so much for the feedback!

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

Alright I get that. I have the resistance wire(mine is white for some reason). I have the purple/yellow wire off the solenoid that goes to the slave solenoid I think - mine doesnt go to the coil itself. What I am wondering about is the other purple wire that is on the other (3rd post) of the solenoid that goes to the + side of the coil?

So to sum it up. On my + side of the coil I have a white resistance wire that goes into the harness and a purple/grey stripe that goes to one of the smaller posts of the solenoid.

The Purple/grey one is the one I was considering jumping to the yellow/red wire on the other small post on the solenoid. Or maybe I am just lost.

Thanks!

Something is messed up here. The white wire is not a resistance wire. The purple one is. That wire should go to a connection with the choke and provide reduced voltage while running. It should have a resistance of 1.8-2 ohms. The p/y wire is supposed to go from the solenoid to the coil+ to bypass the resistance wire and give you full battery voltage to the coil during stating. The P/Y wire is supposed to go the coil, and I can't even find a P/G wire listed. I think you starting issue is the resistance wire is dropping the already low battery voltage (due to heavy draw from cranking) even further and reducing spark voltage. Hope that helps a little. Don't think it has anything to do with the slave solenoid. Do you have a points ignition an electronic ignition?

 

[xanthras]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

Yea something is messed up. Its my colors. I am not sure why a few of mine are different, but they are going to the correct locations per this diagram. http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/13/13E4R2.PDF on page 4E-2. So yea, like you said, the Purple/Yel wire from the starter solenoid to the + side of the coil must be the one that is not getting me full voltage. I am assuming that since it runs fine once started that my resistance wire is ok. Just starting is the problem.

So I am thinking two things. One, change that Purple/Yel wire out, Two change out that solenoid which seems to not give me the 12v I need on cold starts.

Sound correct?

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

So I am thinking two things. One, change that Purple/Yel wire out, Two change out that solenoid which seems to not give me the 12v I need on cold starts.

Sound correct?

Try measuring the voltage at the terminal for the P/Y wire on the starter while cranking, and do the same with the battery terminal. should be the same. If the p/y is lower, could have a problem with the contact in the solenoid. I suspect that the white wire is not a resistance wire. With the key on (not running) measure voltage at coil + terminal and measure battery voltage. The coil voltage should be significantly lower if you have the correct resistance wire in there.

 

[xanthras]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

Voltage at the terminal for the P/Y wire on the starter while cranking = 0.

With key on (not cranking) voltage at coil + terminal = ~10 V

Battery voltage at battery and starter solenoid = 12.42V

With those numbers, I am thinking the starter solenoid is not getting me my 12 V out of the "R" terminal while cranking. That is what you meant saying "problem with the contact in the solenoid" right?

Is "R" for relay? Also, how common is this failure type?

I am going to pick one up this week. Hopefully this takes care of the problem.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

One more thing you can try: jumper between the y/r wire and the p/y wire, and give it a try. should put battery voltage to the coil + terminal. If so then your solenoid terminal is the problem. If that r/y wire only has battery voltage on it during starting, (I think it does) I don't see any harm in leaving the jumper on permanently (just like suggested in first post).

 

[xanthras]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

Funny, I actually tried that. The motor fired up but would not stay running? It would shut off as soon as you moved the key to Run. I dont understand why?

 

[xanthras]

Re: Ignition Question - Starter Solenoid performance

New starter solenoid from napa. Fixed it. She starts up great now. Thanks guys!