1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

[OakwoodBeachBum]

OK, I have a 1998 J90PLEEB w/ S/N (as much as I can see on the tag): 04678765?

Symptoms: Starts ok, but dies quickly as if fuel starved...it stalls out. If I play with it, it will eventually hold idle and runs ok. Runs rich, Smokey at startup. Skips and vibrates. Seems to eat a lot of fuel versus how it used to run before. I am finding 2 cycle oil inside the cover and running down the outside. This thing was dry and tight before. Last year we had a drippy leak at the white garden hose looking connector on the fuel supply. I tightened and it got worse; the gasket rolled. My shop replaced and that stopped the leak, but still not running right like it use to. When I hit the throttle, I get some hessitation before it responds.

I just noticed the plugs looked bad today so replaced. See attached pictures. They looked oil fouled a little bit. Have not run yet since replacing plugs. Next picture I am pointing to a spot where oil leaks out.

Background: Ran fine previously. Winterized and stored for ~2 seasons while I pursued a major fiberglass job on the hull. Ran it last season with some issues. I used to get 45mph out of this thing. Now I only get 35mph. Of course, maybe boat is heavier since repaired? Top RPM WOT is 5300RPM. My mechanic says the thing is fine and is blaming on extreme hot weather making it dificult to start the motor...but I dunno. It does not run the same as it did before I stored it.

Is this an ethanol issue?
Am I losing the VRO/fuel pump assy?
Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill?
Suggestions?

Pictures show: Where oil is pooling and leaking out of motor enclosure. The spark plugs I pulled today. The motor: oil is coating everything. I have wiped down with paper towels. The white nylon connector was leaking last year. The air breather is removed in this picture... it had filled up with oil a couple of times. Wierd--one plug really corroded versus others.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

i would check compression, also clean and rebuild the carbs. make sure there are no leaks in any lines. if fluid leaks out, air leaks in.

 

[OakwoodBeachBum]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

Thanks for the reply!!

I forgot to mention that I had my mechanic check the compression last year...it was good and even across all cylinders (no...sorry I do not remember the exact numbers). So we should be good there.

The fuel lines might be in question for the following: Since the fiberglass repair to the hull, I have not reinstalled my permanent tank. I have been running on a 6 gallon portable. So, I have my 6 gallon tank connected to a short hose with a bulb. That connects to my water seperating fuel filter canister. Then there is a short hose and a bulb before the motor. So, yes, two bulbs--I know.

So, if I sucking air in the fuel line....that might cause probs in the fuel mix delivered to the motor. Would it run rich? Would it cause 2 cycle oil to leak all over under the cowl?

 

[Fed]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

Is that oil red?

 

[OakwoodBeachBum]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

Yes...the oil is red! Appears to be the same as what I put in the 2 cycle reservoir.

 

[OakwoodBeachBum]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

I uploaded a pic of what it looks like when you sop it up with a paper towel.

 

[Fed]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

From what I can see it looks like it's been spray painted with fuel/oil, would that be a fair description?
I wouldn't want to send you down the wrong track here & I hope someone with more experience will chime in and confirm or reject what I think may be the cause.
I'd be thinking about the reed valves, either broken, weak or one stuck open with a foreign object.
It would explain the loss of power & the oil I think.

 

[chevinrude]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

Reed valves would be my guess as well.... not 100% on this one, Im sure one of the more experienced guys will chime in at some point.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

I think bad reed valves is not on the table at this point. Start her up on the flusher, air box off and see where it leaks fuel. It appears to be leaking from OMS Pump, Left top carb, and maybe some other places. Fix the leaks and make sure there are no air leaks into the gasoline side.

 

[OakwoodBeachBum]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

Great suggestions guys, I ran her on the ear muffs and found the following:

After changing plugs last weekend, cleaned everything up with paper towels, then tilted up the motor on the trailoring support and left her.

This narration accompanies the attached pictures:

Tilted down, pulled cover, pulled air box.
1. Found oil leaked onto the airbox where I am pointing.

2. Found oil pooled up in the motor box

3. Hooked up my portable tank. This pic shows the layout. Oil reservoir is on the left under the seat. 6 gal. portable tank with a fuel line w/ bulb connects to fuel filter / water separator. Another short length of fuel line (w/ bulb) to motor.

4. Put on the ear muffs, set in a tub of water. turned her over. She started ok. Kept trying to stall. Had to bump the primer at the ignition key repeatedly to keep her going until warm. She stalled a couple times. Had to squeeze the primer bulbs a couple of times. Had some white smoky vapor from the crankcase vent tube that would have been going to the top of the air box...but it subsided. This pic shows the fuel delivery / carbs. I could not find an obvious gas / oil / or fuel mix leak. Nothing dripping, spewing, or atomizing.

5. This is a pic of the motor running. Ear muffs providing flush and cooling water. Good pee stream (should be...water pump and lower seals replaced at end of last season!). Tub of water to help deadon the exhaust noise and maybe provide some back pressure. Smokey!!

When I turned the key, got one short beep and good indicator lights. Could hear a whirring coming from the fuel pump area. Pressurizes herself? After I started, get a noticeable squeeky whir from the pump/VRO assy. Should this be? Sounds like a squeeky bearing.

OK, got my face in there real close while she was starting and running--looking for leaks. There is a "sight glass" on the gas line (who knew?). I did see air bubbles being sucked through. So, guess I have to rework my gas supply lines / gas tank situation? (I have a permanent tank...just not hooked up yet. The 6 gallon portable is the back-up).

Secondly, that white garden hose looking connection on the left (oil supply?) is translucent. I could see a dark fluid level that was just above the inlet and it jangled, jumped, and vibrated as the motor ran. Should there be air in there? Tried to pump the bulb at the oil resevoir, but it was hard as rock. I mark my oil resevoir level before cruising. It always drops. Early last season I sucked tons of oil until my mechanic replaced a rolled gasket in the white garrden hose looking connection, but this year it seems more reasonable.

Shut her off and inspected. Oil seeping down the exterior from a seam between the engine cowl onto the lower unit again. The fuel delivery looks coated with oil, but that's how I started the day. (Gas Pump/VRO area)

Maybe two problems going on here? Next post will have a sixth picture.

Thanks for looking and for the comments/info!!!

 

[OakwoodBeachBum]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

This sixth pic shows oil seeping down the lower unit from the engine cowling.

Thanks for looking!!

 

[Fed]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

Just an observation, it doesn't look at all like fuel/oil mix, it looks like raw oil so I think you should be looking for a straight out leak.

You shouldn't pump the oil primer bulb every time you start up either, that could be making it a lot worse.

My motor smokes like that on the muffs.

 

[OakwoodBeachBum]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

Thanks Fed....yeah, I think it is pure 2 cycle oil, not fuel mix. I do not normally pump the bulb on the oil resevoir--maybe once a year? Did so today because I saw air at that white connector. (is that normal?)
Cannot find the 2 cycle leak. If it was under pressure, wouldn't it be spewing or aerosolized?

 

[Fed]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

Are you disconnecting the fuel line to run it out of fuel at shutdown?
That will fill the carbs with straight oil, not a good thing to do.
The air box should be sealed so nothing at all should leak out of there. It looks like it's dripping oil where your finger is pointing.

 

[Fed]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

It looks like it's dripping oil where your finger is pointing.
Edit/Delete Message

I had a closer look so forget what I just said about the airbox.

 

[OakwoodBeachBum]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

No, I am not pulling the gas line and running her out of fuel at shutdown. I thought the same about the air box. Why all the oil? Was the air box filling up and then it leaking out?

There are those two smaller hoses that connect to the air box. There is the one at the top that inserts into a hole and there is the one at the bottom that connects to a nipple.

When problem first happened last year, I pulled the air box and looked. It was full of oil or fuel mix. My mechanic also adjusted and ran the motor last year and pronounced "No problem". Either he, or me, didn't reconnect the lower hose to the nipple. Is that some kind of recycler of fuel mix if something spews out of the carb intakes back into the air box?

Any how. I do not think the air box is cracked and leaking. I think that the fuel delivery system is dripping onto the air box when the motor is stored on tilt.

My understanding is that hese VRO / Fuel Pump assemblies are very expensive and hard to find for this series of Johnson. Are rebuild kits still available?

Can't help to think that this all goes back to E10

 

[Fed]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

I think you're right about the bottom hose on the air box but sadly my motor is 10 years older than yours so I don't have a top hose to my air box.
I don't know what your top hose does or even if it's in the right place, it seems strange to me that it would just poke into a hole in the air box rather than go into a 'fitting' like the bottom hose.
You may get a bit more info at the brp website.
http://epc.brp.com/Index.aspx?lang=E&s1=5b3ac034-57ab-45a5-97c8-3daa90d94d3a

 

[OakwoodBeachBum]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

Hey Fed,
That is a great link! Now I know that white garden hose looking connector thingey is the "Fuel Filter"!! LOL

Unfortunately, I am starting to think my problem is the VRO/Fuel Pump. Why are those things so darn expensive on Johnson O/B's ? And, is a rebuild kit for a Johnson fuel pump also going to rebuild the whole VRO/Fuel Pump assembly, or are the designed only for the simple fuel pump configuration?

Thanks!
--Matt

 

[bob johnson]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

well not that it matters but your model number tells me you ahve a 1999 motor!

second i have two similar motors a 97 90 hp and a 95 115 hp..

when i tilt the motor and let her sit for a week or so, i get all that oil as well.

on my motors the oil pump is dissconected and i run pre mixed gas...so no pure oil is fed to the fuel pump. I believe the oil is what is left over after that gas in the carb evaporates and the oil runs out of the carb into the airbox....sometimes the seal around the airbox openings to the carbs dont seat and the fuel-pure oil and seep out there.

it is supposed to run into the airbox and drain from the airbox into the lower tube and back into the motor...

but again I think the four openings dont always seat perfectly to the carb openings....

my motor runs like a champ so i dont think my floats are miss adjusted...

I havent set my motor down and let it sit...maybe i should try that for a week and see if I still get the oil


since you have your oil pump still in use, id look around better for a pure oil leak...

do you get your oil leaking during use??? or after setting with the motor tilted????

ps i recently read that running the motor out of fuel is very bad...and after reading why, i think i concur....because one or more carbs may run out of fuel before the others, and so that cylinder being primarily fed by that carb will also run out of OIL, as the motor continues to run on the gas from the other carbs going to their cylinders....and no oil ruins motors when they are running!!!!

although i really dont totally understand how a carb can only feed one cylinder when the fuel-oil mixture covers the crank and rods on its way into the cylinders...

seems there would be mixing going on between cylinders....




good luck

bob

 

[Fed]

Re: 1998 J90PLEEB--What's the prognosis Doc?

Can you clean it up and go through your routine again to get a nice fresh puddle then decide one way or another of it's straight oil or fuel/oil mix.
Try it with the portable tank placed lower than the motor.