Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

ezimmerm

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
94
Alright I have an Quantum 1804 with a Force 150. I currently have a 13 x 19 prop on it, that size came with the boat.

My rig goes about 35 or so and from what I'm seeing elsewhere, boats similar in setup should be hitting about 50. When I hit wide open throttle the engine goes to around 6K rpm's which tells me its not the motor but the prop thats the problem.

The prop is a pirahna prop so I was thinking of replacing the blades with the 12 5/8 x 21 size. From what I'm reading the increase in pitch should bring the rpm's down to the 5000-5500rpm range it should be at while increasing top end also. Correct?

Any other recommendations?
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
70,527
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

I was thinking of replacing the blades with the 12 5/8 x 21 size. From what I'm reading the increase in pitch should bring the rpm's down to the 5000-5500rpm range it should be at while increasing top end also. Correct?

Ayuh,... Give it a Shot,... It might make you Happy....
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

Ez, welcome to Iboats prop forum and I will try to help you as much as I can but without more information no one can help you, and I will tell you I need more information than anyone else. But if you would like my help fill this form out and I will help you as much as I can.

You might try reading this for a better understanding of changing props for better performance, and for the major differences between aluminum props and stainless steel.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=369057

I also show your recommended max RPM to be 5,500 and your gear ratio to be 1.93:1, please verify this. If this is true I show your prop slip is over 37% and just changing prop pitch will NOT take care of your problem.


If you would prefer to not go to this much trouble there are many other people who will come along and gladly help you.

1. Year, make and model of boat
2. Length, width and base weight of boat, look for boat decal on back of boat
2a.What is the maximum recommended HP for your boat
3. Number of people and gallons of gas normally on boat and what do you use the boat for
4. Year, make. manufacturer and model of motor and recommended Wide Open Throttle (WOT) range
5. HP and gear ratio of motor IMPORTANT
If you don?t know the ratio, you need to pull the plugs out and put a piece of tape across the prop and the lower unit and then cut it between the prop and the housing then do the same thing on the flywheel and turn the motor until the tape lines up with each other on the prop, it is easier if two people do this, so one can watch the prop while the other counts the revolutions of the motor
6. Anti-ventilation Plate height above keel of boat if it is an outboard in inches, use a straight edge under the keel and sticking out to the anti ventilation plate for a reference
Motor Transom Height
AntiventilationPlateStraightEdge-2.jpg

7. WOT RPM and speed from your current prop and how much gas and how many people were in the boat for the test data and is the speed by GPS. Make sure you trim the prop up until it starts ventilating and then just trim in until it quits ventilating.
RPM _________ Speed ______ GPS ______ No. of people ______ Gal. Gas ________
8. Make, model, diameter, pitch, number of blades and whether SS or aluminum prop and does it have a hydrafoil, dolefin or trim tabs
9. Has your motor been tuned up lately and have you checked that the carburetor butterfly is opening all the way by just pushing the throttle at the helm and not at the carburetor, checked compression, and looked at the plugs and checked spark as well as timing and advance, all of the foregoing could be the reason your prop is not attaining full RPM
10. What problems are you trying to cure or what are you looking for the boat to do that it is not doing the way you think it should or to your expectations and does the prop show any damage that you can see

REMEMBER, The numbers I give you will be NO better than the information you give me. I use a computer program I designed to find the correct pitch and then knowledge to pick a Better prop design for your boat.

The only thing I ask of you is to come back and give me a report of WOT RPM and speed for my database.



H
 

ezimmerm

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
94
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

Let me answer as many questions as I can, I'll get the rest for you tomorrow when I take the boat out.

1. 1989 Quantum 1804
2. Length is 18 and Beam is 7' 3" 1732 lbs (those are from nada). I believe nada does not include the motor weight for outboards in there calculation, the weight i have listed in the force owners manual is 336lbs (for a combined total of 2068lbs) .
3. Figured just me in the boat (170lbs) and a full tank of gas (24 gallons)
4.1989 Force 1508f9a 150hp, recommended max is 5500rpms
5. Gear ratio listed in owners manual is 1.93
6. I will have to get this tomorrow when I take the boat out
7. If i push the throttle to wide open the tach reads over 6k rpms and from the speedometer on the boat its going about 35ish (I'll gps it tomorrow). I've seen similar boats (18ft, 175outboard) fly by me like im standing still. Usually keep the tank full so 24 gallons . I'll gps this tomorrow and make sure its trimmed out accordingly for a full speed run.
8. Its a Piranha composite prop Hub is FB3 and the blades are 1319xb model. The prop has a diameter/pitch of 13x19. I would like to note this replaced an aluminum prop of the same size, no noticeable speed increase or decrease.
9. I rebuilt the carbs and the fuel pumps, engine runs smoothly across entire powerband and over revs. Spark plugs look normal, maybe sunday I can rent a compression tester and get numbers for you. Also of note, the engine had the head gasket and exhause manifold gaskets replaced last year (thanks to the iboat forums!) and the cylinder head was found to be slightly out of spec and was remachined also, no water leakage noted after the service (reason I replaced all the gaskets was because of water in lower cylinder. Exhause gaskets were the probable cause).
10. The boat seems much to slow for the weight/motor combo and I'm guessing that figuring out what the problem is will also give me a better cruise speed and gas economy. I'll update the post with the other information requested in the next day or two.

Thanks again!
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

Ez, There seems to be too many variables here that don't fit right.

If the old aluminum prop is in good shape please put it back on the boat, if you have a hydra foil of any kind take it off as well.

Bring a mechanics tach with you to check your WOT RPM as well as the GPS for speed.

Is this boat a deep vee or is it a bass boat with a pad bottom for speed.

I need you to take some pictures of the anti ventilation plate with the straight edge off the bottom of the boat so I an see how high the anti vent plate is above the bottom of the boat and then a stern picture from behind the boat level with the bottom of the boat.

Your prop slip is over 37% , and that is ridiculous for a boat that size and weight.

Prop Slip
ezimmermpropSlip.jpg




H
 

ezimmerm

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
94
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

Alright have some more info for you. The numbers were a bit better then I originally estimated. Forgot my camera so I'll have to get some pictures either tonight or tomorrow night if I get a chance.

1. The speedometer is pretty much on, it varied by 2mph at times otherwise it was spot on. That being said I used the gps and the max speed I could get was 39mph @ 5500rpm.

2. The antiventilation plate is actually about 1/2 under the bottom of the boat.

3. I don't have a mechanics tach, how does this work and how expensive are they?

4. The boat is like a bass boat, it's a vhull with a small pad on the back of the boat.

5. The old prop was pretty beat up, slightly bent and had a few chips which is why i replaced it. So i used the piranha prop during the speed test.

6. No hydrafoil or any engine attachments.


I had some pictures in my email from when i bought the boat so you can get an idea of what it looks like.
 

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hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

EZ, I am positive that one of our biggest problems right now is that the engine is mounted too low on the transom, and as soon as you can get pictures that will prove at least one of the problems, and we will go from there.

Your prop slip is still at 24% and that is still way above what it should be, which is around 11%.



H
 

ezimmerm

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
94
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

Yeah from what I'm reading the antiventilation plate should be even or slightly above the bottom of the boat correct?

I'll try to get those pictures for you tonight after work, thanks again for the help I really appreciate it.
 

steelespike

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 26, 2002
Messages
19,069
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

As far as the height I usually suggest raising to a point just before venting becomes a problem.And yes it usually ends up slightly above the bottom.
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

EZ, Spike is right as always, I would bet we have to move the motor up at least 2 holes to get to the right height, but the pictures will tell us what we need to know.



H
 

ezimmerm

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
94
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

Alright got a few pictures for ya.

The plate is 3/8" below the bottom of the boat with the plate level (the first picture I must have tilted the camera a bit, it was level, second picture shows clearly the plate is below the bottom of the boat).

Big problem I'm seeing with the engine mounting bracket though, the top holes on top are used and the bottom holes on the bottom are used, meaning...how in the hell am I going to move the engine :mad:
 

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lithstrip

Cadet
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
10
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

ezimmerm,
I have the identical boat only with a 125, I can get 42-45 (if memory serves) mph gps 5500rpm when running light with a 17p prop. would have to double check but I think my motor sits about where yours does, have you put it on a scale? mine weighs out at 2900lbs. w/trailer
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

EZ, it looks like you have one hole on the top left, is that correct. and the only way I know to do it is to fill the holes that are there now with an epoxy mix and then drill new holes.



H
 

REDNECK302

Cadet
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
6
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

or you could use a manual jack plate....
 

ezimmerm

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
94
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

Sorry been out on the road for work, it keeps getting in the way of my boating time :rolleyes:

HW, Not sure that drilling another set of holes is the way to go but I do like the idea of a jack plate.

Are there any particular brands that you guys would recommend?
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Another prop question - boat is slow...I think.

EZ, you will have to drill new holes for a jackplate anyway, and spend extra money as well.



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