new member with a question

[mnmike3]

hello, I'm new here as well as a new boat owner, but I have grown up around boats since i was a baby (26 now)

Last night I picked up a boat that was given to me for free. Its definitely a project boat but thats ok i enjoy projects, currently building a custom motorcycle. The boat I believe is an 86 18' bayliner capri (don't know year for sure but think its right around there) it currently has a force 125 outboard on it that doesn't run. The story i got is the boat belonged to the ladys dad and his step kids took everything he had and wrecked it. anyways being the group of idiots they are nobody mixed any oil in the gas then took the boat out and ran it till it died not knowing you had to premix the gas. from what I have been told it has a scorched piston or cylinder? I haven't done anything yet to verify that just know the motor is not seized and the bowl is removed from one carb.

my question is is this force motor worth trying to fix? I know they weren't the best motor to start with but if Its fixable for less money in parts than a different motor I can do the labor myself

 

[Smokepole27]

Re: new member with a question

Tilt the motor up and pull the spark plugs spray wd40 in the cylinders and manually turn the fly wheel to lube it up then after that do a compression test and find out what the readings are.
If they are all around 140 to 150 you should be fine as long it didnt mess with your valves. I would run it if you have good compression

 

[Smokepole27]

Re: new member with a question

The only way to determine if your walls are scared is pull the head and look at the cylinder walls. Im not a mechanic or an expert but if it was free and they did what you said they did and compression is good run it till you have a problem if you dont already have a compression issue?

 

[mnmike3]

Re: new member with a question

I'm going to have to get a compression tester and test it out. I was thinking I should probably look into it myself rather than taking somebody's word 3rd or 4th person. I can pull the head if need be and look at the walls head gaskets aren't too much i guess. I'm not afraid of getting my hand dirty to save some money

with it being free I don't feel right dumping a few grand on a motor so if i can make this one work for now that would be great. I can always upgrade later if needed

 

[Smokepole27]

Re: new member with a question

Get a manual because if you take the head off youll need to know the torque specs wich will prob be in inch lbs and youll need to know the sequence unless someone on here will post the page you need and you can print it out. I was fortunate on my mariner because the sequence and torgue specs were made on the head at every bolt location.

 

[mnmike3]

Re: new member with a question

I have been looking into getting a manual. since the boat was free i didn't exactly plan on having a boat this year. was looking but not intending on actually getting one. Odds are it will sit in my driveway most of the year not getting much work done unless I can get the motor running for a reasonable price. then I might start making the other repairs it needs, main one being a floor but we have done floors in 3 other boats recently so i'm not too worried about that part.

I need to finish my custom chopper first before I spend the bike fund on the boat.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: new member with a question

Free boat = oxymoron Good luck

 

[coolbikeguy]

Re: new member with a question

Tilt the motor up and pull the spark plugs spray wd40 in the cylinders and manually turn the fly wheel to lube it up then after that do a compression test and find out what the readings are.
If they are all around 140 to 150 you should be fine as long it didnt mess with your valves. I would run it if you have good compression

valves ?? arent we talking about a 2 stroke ?? maybe i missed something.

 

[john from md]

Re: new member with a question

If you can build a chopper, you can work on a Force engine. I suggest instead of WD 40, you spray some 2 stroke oil in the cylinders. WD40 is for water displacement and is not a good lubricant.

Before you put any money into it, you should do a compression check. When you do it, make sure you ground the high tension plug leads so you don't damage the CDI modules.

John

 

[mnmike3]

Re: new member with a question

If you can build a chopper, you can work on a Force engine. I suggest instead of WD 40, you spray some 2 stroke oil in the cylinders. WD40 is for water displacement and is not a good lubricant.

Before you put any money into it, you should do a compression check. When you do it, make sure you ground the high tension plug leads so you don't damage the CDI modules.

John

The chopper is easy to build for me, I'd like to build bikes and start selling them someday but thats a ways down the road. before I got this boat I was planning on buying a metal lathe this fall and start selling custom parts (grips pegs neck races etc) but maybe not with another project to work on, this makes 3 current projects as well as 2 not so current or at least low on the priority list

I'm doing the compression test this weekend. good thinking on the 2 stroke oil makes sense. never would have thought about grounding the plug leads but thanks for the advice. i'm sure I will have many more questions

 

[mnmike3]

Re: new member with a question

Free boat = oxymoron Good luck

very true the only free part about it is the free potential i now have sitting in my driveway while I park my truck on the street.

 

[Smokepole27]

Re: new member with a question

Hmmm dont we have reed valves? Correct me if Im wrong, Im new to the force world but I thought all outboards have reed valves or some type of valves?

 

[john from md]

Re: new member with a question

Force two stroke engines do use reed valves. They are located behind the carbs.

John

 

[Smokepole27]

Re: new member with a question

Ok makeing sure. Im pretty sure if there wasnt any oil in the fuel the valves could possible be damaged, likely but it is possible they wouldnt be....

 

[john from md]

Re: new member with a question

Reed valves are nothing like the valves in a four stroke engine. Reed valves are just that, reeds made of steel or composite material. They usually only get damaged from 1) over revving the engine and 2) back firing through the carbs.

John

 

[mnmike3]

Re: new member with a question

Did the compression test today, the results weren't what i was hoping for but were kinda what I expected. 120,50,120,120 give or take a few psi for the 120's but they were close. so I pulled the head off to take a look at the pistons and cylinder walls. the 3 didn't look bad at all could even see some of the cross hatching in spots. the bad one on the other had looks rough but nothing too major. i can run my fingernail over the bad spots and don't feel any edges except the slightest bit in one spot towards the top of the cylinder. Head gasket looked good also, no blown out spots etc.

Now this is where I start to 2nd guess myself, don't know why I do it but i do, would it be possible to get away with just honing the cylinders and putting new rings in unless I find something more upon more disassembly? or should I do a complete tear-down/rebuild? I guess any advice on what my next move should be would be great. anything force specific i should know before proceeding? I plan to pick up a service manual next weekend.

Oh almost forgot on the block on the gasket surface next to each cylinder it has numbers stamped (not factory i assume) next to top and bottom 030 and middle two 010. I found this quite odd, to me i would think that means the motor has been bored over before but to different sizes? If so why?

 

[john from md]

Re: new member with a question

"I found this quite odd, to me i would think that means the motor has been bored over before but to different sizes? If so why?"

Because somewhere in its past, someone forgot to add oil, or didn't head the overtemp buzzer.

There can be broken rings and damaged piston skirt that you can't see from the head side. You can pull the port cover off the side and get a better look at the piston skirt and rings.

Just so you know, your normal compression is 140-160 PSI. A 110 psi drop doesn't just happen. There is damage somewhere, you just have to find it.

John

 

[mnmike3]

Re: new member with a question

I will pull the port cover and see what else I can find out. I know 110 pis drop doesn't just happen, guess I just figured I would find more damage to the cylinder walls than I did with that big of a drop. even the "good" (maybe better is a the right term) cylinders were still 20-60 psi down. also when I said why has it been bored i meant why to different sizes? doesn't make much sense to me i guess. sorry should have been more specific

If the motor has been over-bored already, which I thought when I saw the stampings, how far over can I go? .040? provided the cylinders are in good enough shape to do so once miced.

how much, ballpark of course, is it going to run me to rebuild this motor? 1000? 1500? I guess Ive seen some rebuild kits from $600 to $900 but then theres machine shop costs and any surprises that may come up along the way. I'm also not sure if anything else needs to be replaced to make it run once the compression issue is fixed since I have no idea when and how well it ran last. I know for a fact the carbs need rebuilding cause the bowl has been off one for who knows how long and i'd rather be safe than sorry.

I called a boat mechanic and he told me I should buy a $4000 used motor which I kinda knew he was going to say and I'm not willing to spend that much on a motor for a free boat that still needs work I'll just take the $4000 and buy a boat thats ready to go if i can't fix this force motor for a decent price.

 

[john from md]

Re: new member with a question

Search for Frank Acampora's threads. He has covered this subject many times. He has quoted rebuild costs in his posts. He also has stated how far over you can go with the pistons. My old feeble brain seems to remember .030.

John

 

[mnmike3]

Re: new member with a question

i will do that thanks