Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

[Vlietboater]

I have a 1987 Liberator 211. Has 350 MAG. with 450 some hours on meter. Looking to rebuild to a 383 stroker, purchased boat of cousin who was second owner and he did not know of any motor work, boat is raw water cooled and as far as i have been told it was always in fresh water. It dose have and alpha 1 outdrive, aftermarket SEI brand. After som carefull reading and searching i see that the alpha 1 will not hold up to the power of the 383. I understand i will need to go to a bravo out drive, but i am not familar with them as i am with the Alpha 1. What bravo drive should i upgrade to on my 211 Liberator? Is their any parts that i can reuse? like inner transom mount, steering, shift cables, bell housing?? Thanks for any advice

Also a year before i purchased the boat i was out on it with my cousing and the outdrive locked up due to a piece of the upper gear breaking off and jaming it up.

Thanks again,
Peter (Newbee to boating fourm)

 

[Don S]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

Everything from the flywheel back changes when going from an Alpha to a Bravo.
Any one of the 3 will work with the 383. Bravo I, II, or III.

 

[180shabah]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

B1 = similar to alpha but stronger
B3 = dual counter-rotating props

 

[bomar76]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

We have ran a pretty evil 385 stroker (in the 450-465 HP range) we built 2 years ago though an Alpha Gen II on our Baja 22 Caliber TC. 10.65:1 compression, AL heads, full roller, 1,6 ratio rockers, AL Air Gap intake, no circ pump, forged crank, etc
No problems.
We also run a drive shower for cooling, use the thru hulls to keep drive temps down, take it easy out of the hole, and are quick on the throttle when out of the water.
An Alpha WILL handle it, you just have to use some sense.
And there are advantages to an Alpha over Bravo...less parasitic HP loss, less drag though water, etc.

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

Ditto on above... and I'm probably on the order of 425+ horsepower in current configuration. I also have a new set of the competition ported AFR 195 heads with larger combustion chambers on the coffee table... that'll give an 8.6 static compression ratio and be just perfect for a blower addition... so then more like 600 hp... Still mulling it over. Based on my experience, i would not hesitate to put 400 - 450 hp through a well maintained alpha drive.

Redline shockproof heavy gear lube can make a big difference as well.

also if a standard alpha (I'm using the shorter alpoha ss right now), you can afford to blow a few of them up and buy new sei drives for the cost of a bravo exchange. and it will be noticably faster with the alpha than the bravo. All depends on your tolerance for risk and how much you want to spend. note that the comment above is true - you'll NEVER recover the money you put into it, but as long as you're good with that, have a ball!

 

[bomar76]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

Ditto on above... and I'm probably somewhere approaching the same horsepower range hp range - with a new set of competition ported AFR 195 heads on the living room floor and thinking hard about ordering a blower

Glad that project worked out for you! I remember you were working on it then I left this forum for quite a while.
We run Mobil 1 Synthetic in the drive and change it often.
If we had this whole project to do over we would have went the blower route and probably dry sump. Not for any major reason other than to antagonize a lot of people. I did find a steal on a 671 setup for a SBC but I already had the rotating assembly on hand and decided to stay the NA course. Now wish like Hell I would have bought it to have around.
Only real issue we had was a collapsed lifter (I foolishly used a used set of roller lifters that seemed fine in a false economy move) that led to one bent and one broken pushrod. I pulled all of the lifters and went to a new set of the LS7's and that took care of that. No other collateral damage.

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

Glad that project worked out for you! I remember you were working on it then I left this forum for quite a while.
We run Mobil 1 Synthetic in the drive and change it often.
If we had this whole project to do over we would have went the blower route and probably dry sump. Not for any major reason other than to antagonize a lot of people. I did find a steal on a 671 setup for a SBC but I already had the rotating assembly on hand and decided to stay the NA course. Now wish like Hell I would have bought it to have around.
Only real issue we had was a collapsed lifter (I foolishly used a used set of roller lifters that seemed fine in a false economy move) that led to one bent and one broken pushrod. I pulled all of the lifters and went to a new set of the LS7's and that took care of that. No other collateral damage.

hear you on "false economy" moves... Been there before - more times than I care to admit. Glad you worked out the problem without more damage. you should try the redline shockproof in your drive - it's a solid suspension and has a lot better film integrity - a big deal when it comes to chipping teeth shifting into gear (unless you've run a bypass switch to the neutral safety start so you can start in gear most of the time. I did a pushbutton under the dash so it takes knowing where it is and two hands to start it in gear), and handles higher temps, etc... a lot better without flinging fof gears. I NOTICED a difference in the way the drive shifted and ran when i changed from mobile one...

On this build, went with forged steel crank, H-beem rods and -16 cc dished blower pistons from the start. ported iron heads with 64 cc compustion chambers and a tight quench put compression right at 10:1. works great with no detonation on 93 octane. The crane ignition and a v6 tbolt module make it idle a lot better than you would think even with a 270 / 286 cam in it. Bottom end should be good to 700+ horsepower. The plan was (is) that 75 cc chamber aluminum heads put compression at about 8.5 just abour right for a small blower - either roots with a boost referenced carb or a procharger with the same carb that's on it with different floats, etc... Won't go there without hydraulic steering and some other safety upgrades. kissing 80 now with the ss drive on it, adding 100 - 200 horsepower will make it scary fast on the top end.

If I could do a small roots without cutting a huge hole in the boat, it would already be done, the question now is whether the much more expensive procharger or whipple is going to be for this or for the ls1 in the corvette that sits next to it in the garage...

Hope you have a great boating season - weather is absolutely beautiful here! Can't wait to get out some more once work calms down.

to the OP: Do some searches, this has been talked about a good bit. Realize that the vast majority of drives of any sort, under or overpowered, die not because of how they are run, but because they were poorly maintained...

 

[Vlietboater]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

sorry for MIA i was out of town for work for a few days. I do love the boat and am not looking for resale value. The old 350 MAG just dose not seem that great anymore, as far as i know the 450 hours are correct with no rebuilds, not sure what a good rule of thumb is for hours on a boat thoe?? I think most of the problems are due the the quadra junk carb. i have the motor completly disconnected from the end of last season when we blew the engine coupler. A buddy of mine that owns a machine shop needs some electrical work done so i got thinkin i would have him do a .030" over to freshen up with a 383 stroker kit. I have a SEI outdrive on it with 3-4 seasons on it, the oil was always changed with mercrusers syn, gear lube. I check for water at end of season and change every spring. I use the boat as a weekend warrior, usually for crusin, tubing, and skiing. Love the boat but power seems to be down. Prop is a quicksilver stainless 21P. From what i was reading sounded like i would need to upgrade to bravo??? Maybe the SEI is worth taking the chance on??????

 

[bomar76]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

My advice (worth what you are paying for it):
Keep your present engine as a spare.
Run it untill your stroker is ready, really there is not much on it you want for the new engine anyway except the bolt ons.
Pick up a nice used junk yard roller block for no more than $50 and build that up.


It sounds like you are looking at building a pretty tame stroker, I'd have no problem using the SEI you have.

Throw that junk Rochester Q jet in the trash and put a new Edelbrock 1409 on your engine.

 

[Vlietboater]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

Have not put any numbers together yet, still in the planning stages of what i want to do but what would a mild 383, with vortec heads, decient cam, and 750 carb run??? Some where areond 9.1-1 350-370HP??

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

I definately wouldn't worry about the drive in that range...

 

[bomar76]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

750 is was too big of a carb for that engine.
I doubt you will be near 350 HP with that (scant) info. You could get that out of a 350.
Remember the cam situation (reversion) is a very limiting factor.
Also remember the HP and Torque requirements for a marine engine are completely different than a car, and it is useles sto build a 6500 rpm boat engine.

Buy a copy of Desktop Dyno (really cheap) and play with comibnations.

 

[Vlietboater]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

What would be a realistic HP range for a 383??? I know it depends on cam and everything else.

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

depends on how much you want to spend...

you can pretty easily get 400-500 horsepower out of a 383 and still maintain pretty good manners. Don't skimp on heads - that's the first and most important key to making power. that and a decent builder that has significant marine experience is a MAJOR plus.

it all depends on what your budget is.

realistically, say 6 - 8k for an honest 450++ horse 383 that will be reliable, hold up, etc... maybe a little more or less depending on what route you take.

people will say you can do it for less, but if your honest about what everything costs, that's what it costs to do it right.

 

[Mkos1980]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

Your outdrive will be fine unless you abuse it. WOT starts, jumping waves ect.. I'm close to 400HP on my 350 and in the mid 60's with no problems. Going on 3 years now with the 1990 alpha one. I do run the merc HI-PO gearlube though.

This was my latest vid. I think this run was about 63mph. Best I've had it was a hair over 65 gps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dckfAVfZGRw

 

[skargo]

Re: Looking to build 383 Stroker and looking for outdrive help!

Quadrajunk!?!?!?! A Quadrajet, set up properly is way better than an ebrock carb.
People used to toss them on muscle cars too, until they learned just how good they are.