Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

williamson

Cadet
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
7
Hello all and thanks in advance for your input. I have 1986 four winns 170 i/o with 4.3L omc. I would like to add a second battery to run my electronics and use the other battery just for starting. The electronics that I run are: cd player, amp, sub, 4 speakers, bilge pump, and fish finder. I have been all over the internet trying to figure out what is the best way to do this. At first I thought this would be a very simple project, but now I just have so many questions and concerns on how to go about this. First off let me say that I don't alot of money to complete this task. My first thought was to just install a perko type switch. But after reading alot of posts I don't know if that would be a good option or not. Is seems to me that one must be very careful when operating the switch when under way. Is that true? Some of the reseach that I have done said that I could burn something up if I turn the switch while the motor is running. I have read about vsr that seem very good and less to worry about, but cost more that I want to spend. Can anyone tell me what would be the cheapest and simplest system that I could use. hopefully I didn't leave any info out. Thanks again!!!!!!!!!
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,478
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

Just add another battery with a Perko switch. No need to switch all the accessories over to a second battery. As long as you don't turn the switch to off while the engine is running, you are fine. Your second battery will be your back up. Just switch between the two batterries occasionally to keep them both charged or run in the "both" position while running and then switch to one or the other when you are stopped.
 

williamson

Cadet
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
7
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

Do I need to have identical batteries or can bat 2 be a deep cycle marine battery. Also any input on which perko to buy. Any good theads on a wiring diagram. Just so I got this right. When everything is wired up, when I have the switch on 1 everything will run on battery 1. And when I switch it to 2 everything will run on battery 2. Is that correct. Thanks again. I appreciate the much needed help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,762
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

You will get a diagram with the switch.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,478
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

I would just get identical deep cycle marines. The only case where I would get a dedicated start battery would be if you had fuel injection since they are not as tolerant of lower start voltage.
 

arks

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Messages
1,929
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

I just posted this in another thread. I think you would benefit, too.
dualBatterySglEngine.gif


The use of a switch and wiring like this is recommend with dual battery installations. A brief explanation of the operation of the switch in this circuit follows.

In the OFF position, the two batteries are disconnected from all loads. The OFF position is used when the boat is being stored or otherwise not in use. It prevents any drain from the batteries. This can be useful if a circuit has been accidently left on, say a cabin lighting circuit or similar drain. Such a load can completely discharge a battery in a day or two, leading to an unanticipated dead battery situation when you return to your boat. On some switches a key lock is provided, allowing the switch to locked in the off position. The provides another level of security in preventing the boat from being used when left in storage or unattended.

In the 1 position, all loads and charging currents are connected to the No. 1 battery (the PORT battery in the illustration). Starting current for the engine starter motor is supplied by the PORT battery. When the engine is running, surplus current developed by its charging circuit will flowing into the PORT battery. Current to lighting and other loads will flow from the PORT battery. The STDB battery is completely isolated and has no load current, nor does it receive any charging current.

In the 2 position, all loads and charging currents are connected to the No. 2 battery (the STBD battery in the illustration). Now it supplies current required by starting and running, and it receives all the charging current from the engine. The PORT battery is totally isolated.

In the BOTH position, the two batteries are connected in parallel. This has a number of implications. Unless the batteries have exactly the same state of charge, the combined voltage to the two batteries in parallel will sag to a voltage somewhat lower than the highest battery's terminal voltage. Current from the higher voltage battery will flow into the lower voltage battery and begin charging it. As long as the state of charge in one battery is higher than the other, the lower battery is more of a load than a source of power. Eventually, the batteries will reach an equilibrium, and they will both have the same terminal voltage. At that point they will both tend to supply current to loads that are attached to them, and they will both receive charging current furnished by the engine.

It would seem like operating in the BOTH position would be beneficial, but that is not always the case. Even though the batteries will eventually rise or fall to the same terminal voltage when connected together, they will not necessarily become exactly the same. A battery (or any source of electrical engery) can be thought of as having an internal resistance. The lower this internal resistance the greater the current it can supply. The internal resistance will also affect how the battery absorbs charging current. Even though they are connected in parallel, it is possible that they will supply unequal currents to the loads, and it is also possible that they will accept unequal currents from an the engine charging source.

If the batteries are significantly different in their age, their type of construction, and their state of charge, this unequal distribution of current can be more significant. To describe the situation in the simplest of terms, when two batteries are connected in parallel, they will probably tend to behave more like the weakest battery of the two than the strongest.

Paralleling the batteries can come in handy in some situations. For example, both batteries may be discharged to a point where neither alone can provide enough current to crank the starter motor, but combined in parallel they can turn the engine over.

If one battery is fully charged and the other is totally discharged, connecting them in parallel (by using the BOTH position) can cause very high currents to flow between the batteries. Extreme heat can be generated by the sudden charging of the discharged battery. Use caution in this situation. It is better to recondition a discharged battery by slowly re-charging it with an AC-operated battery charger.

The arrangement of the contacts of the typical OFF-1-2-BOTH permits the operation of the switch in the range of 1-2-BOTH without ever disconnecting the batteries from the load or the outboard charging circuit. This is important, as it is possible to cause damage to the charging circuit if the battery is disconnected while the engine is running. By choosing the path of rotation of the switch, it is possible to change from 1 to 2 without moving through the OFF position.
 

williamson

Cadet
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
7
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

Right now I have a starting battery in the boat. Would I be better off buying another identical battery or should I get a deep cycle battery? Thanks again for all of the help
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Messages
4,552
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

I do not know what type charging system you have. Is it a Outboard or I/O?
If it is a I/O then does it have a 3 wire alternator or a 1 wire alternator?
If you are going to run in the both postion it is better if both batteries are the same type and age.

If you want to play the battery switch game, Switch to one to start then switch to both to charge both batteries while engine running and when stop switch to 2 to run off battery 2 and save battery 1 for starting then batteries do not have to be the same type.

If you leave switch in both with the motor stopped then the stronger battery will discharge into the weaker batterry over time. In this case batteries should be alike and same age.

On my boat My system is very simple battery 1 runs everything the boat came with.
Battery 2 runs all the added electronics, and both batteries are charged thru a battery isolator.
This works very well with a 3 wire alternator on a I/O.

If you have a Outboard or a I/O with a 1 wire alternator then the VSR or ACR work almost as good.

Battery isolator or VSR / ACR can be wired with a switch if you like or without a switch. Switch just allows you to select the battery to start off of.

With a switch never turn to off with the motor running as it will blow most charging systems.
 

findinghomer

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
271
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

where are these switches typically mounted?
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Messages
4,552
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

where are these switches typically mounted?

Most of the time they are going to be mounted near the batteries and the motor since the starting wires to the motor are very large and expensive.
 

findinghomer

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
271
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

good, that was my plan, and that was my reason
 

jafo9

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
150
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

i'd like to give a plug to genuinedealz.com. when i was going through this process if a adding a battery a few months ago getting great advice from this forum, someone recommended this wire site. they saved me TONS of money and shipping was ridiculously fast. I was able to use marine quality 2AWG wire throughout for the high amp runs for less than $100 shipped. good luck.

ps - i have no affiliation with the above company, i just like to reward good service at a good price.
 

mulli2b

Cadet
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
25
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

I have to second the genuinedealz plug. I got some wire at a great price.

Bill
 

lime4x4

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
1,040
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

I'll third that. I get all my wire from them. Good prices and free shipping. Plus the quality is great
 

jake1z

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
46
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

i know this thread is old but withg the three wire alt. setup is it the orange wire i hook up to the isolator?
 

jhebert

Ensign
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
902
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

I just posted this in another thread. I think you would benefit, too.
dualBatterySglEngine.gif


The use of a switch and wiring like this is recommend with dual battery installations. A brief explanation of the operation of the switch in this circuit follows.

In the OFF position, the two batteries are disconnected from all loads. The OFF position is used when the boat is being stored or otherwise not in use. It prevents any drain from the batteries. This can be useful if a circuit has been accidently left on, say a cabin lighting circuit or similar drain. Such a load can completely discharge a battery in a day or two, leading to an unanticipated dead battery situation when you return to your boat. On some switches a key lock is provided, allowing the switch to locked in the off position. The provides another level of security in preventing the boat from being used when left in storage or unattended.

In the 1 position, all loads and charging currents are connected to the No. 1 battery (the PORT battery in the illustration). Starting current for the engine starter motor is supplied by the PORT battery. When the engine is running, surplus current developed by its charging circuit will flowing into the PORT battery. Current to lighting and other loads will flow from the PORT battery. The STDB battery is completely isolated and has no load current, nor does it receive any charging current.

In the 2 position, all loads and charging currents are connected to the No. 2 battery (the STBD battery in the illustration). Now it supplies current required by starting and running, and it receives all the charging current from the engine. The PORT battery is totally isolated.

In the BOTH position, the two batteries are connected in parallel. This has a number of implications. Unless the batteries have exactly the same state of charge, the combined voltage to the two batteries in parallel will sag to a voltage somewhat lower than the highest battery's terminal voltage. Current from the higher voltage battery will flow into the lower voltage battery and begin charging it. As long as the state of charge in one battery is higher than the other, the lower battery is more of a load than a source of power. Eventually, the batteries will reach an equilibrium, and they will both have the same terminal voltage. At that point they will both tend to supply current to loads that are attached to them, and they will both receive charging current furnished by the engine.

It would seem like operating in the BOTH position would be beneficial, but that is not always the case. Even though the batteries will eventually rise or fall to the same terminal voltage when connected together, they will not necessarily become exactly the same. A battery (or any source of electrical engery) can be thought of as having an internal resistance. The lower this internal resistance the greater the current it can supply. The internal resistance will also affect how the battery absorbs charging current. Even though they are connected in parallel, it is possible that they will supply unequal currents to the loads, and it is also possible that they will accept unequal currents from an the engine charging source.

If the batteries are significantly different in their age, their type of construction, and their state of charge, this unequal distribution of current can be more significant. To describe the situation in the simplest of terms, when two batteries are connected in parallel, they will probably tend to behave more like the weakest battery of the two than the strongest.

Paralleling the batteries can come in handy in some situations. For example, both batteries may be discharged to a point where neither alone can provide enough current to crank the starter motor, but combined in parallel they can turn the engine over.

If one battery is fully charged and the other is totally discharged, connecting them in parallel (by using the BOTH position) can cause very high currents to flow between the batteries. Extreme heat can be generated by the sudden charging of the discharged battery. Use caution in this situation. It is better to recondition a discharged battery by slowly re-charging it with an AC-operated battery charger.

The arrangement of the contacts of the typical OFF-1-2-BOTH permits the operation of the switch in the range of 1-2-BOTH without ever disconnecting the batteries from the load or the outboard charging circuit. This is important, as it is possible to cause damage to the charging circuit if the battery is disconnected while the engine is running. By choosing the path of rotation of the switch, it is possible to change from 1 to 2 without moving through the OFF position.


If you are going to steal my illustration and writing, you should give me credit for it and cite the source from where you stole it.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/dualBattery.html

I am the author.
 

Eclipse216

Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
14
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

Do both batteries get a charge from the alternator this way?
 

scooper77515

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
747
Clarification, don't want to start a new thread.

Clarification, don't want to start a new thread.

If going to OFF is bad, then is switching from 1 to 2 or to ALL not bad? Is there a very short space of "OFF" between the 1 and 2 and ALL settings, as it clicks from one post to the next, or is it pretty much an instantaneous switch?

I guess I am asking "do I need to switch it fast, or does it snap from one setting to the next without going through a "dead" or disconnected brief space?"
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,478
Re: Newbie needs help: Dual battery setup

They are called "Make before break" switches. That is why "Both" is typically between just "1" or "2".
 
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