5.0L MPI Supercharger

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Feb 5, 2010
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Hey guys, this is my first post and I have some question I hope you could help me out with. First of all, is there a supercharger system for a 2003 Mercruiser 5.0L MPI? Secondly, would my alpha 1 outdrive handle a blower? Third, what are some good brands for marine headers? Thanks in advance!
 

Mischief Managed

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

This kit would likely work: http://www.superchargers4less.com/whipple/mk_350magmpi.html but I doubt your Alpha would last long behind it.

CMI makes some nice small block headers. Teague sells them. They are not cheap because the are made of stainless steel; and being liquid cooled, they are much more complicated than car headers.

Headers and a supercharger are going to set you back around 7 grand.
 

180shabah

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

...plus $1500 a year for drive replacement.
Probably should just shop for a faster boat.
 

Bondo

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

Ayuh,... The usual way of Hot Roddin' a 5.0l is to swap to a 5.7l,....
That, in your case, would have to be purpose built for a blower...
 

wca_tim

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

by the time you got done monkeying around with the fuel mapping and necessary modificatrions, you could have a naturally aspirated 450-550 horespower small block built... and still have the (potential) drive issue to worry about.

people put the $5k intercooled procharger kit on a stock 350's with good effect and seem to get long engine life out of them (the set up is pretty mild boost), and in a smaller lighter boat the drive will hyold up if you're not silly on it. It helps that the centrifigal blowers build boost as rpms increase and so don't add a ton of torque right off the bottom end where you put the most strain on the drive...

others from whipple (would be the best from performance standpoint!), vortex, paxton, etc... are also around and set up, but unless you really know what you're doing can reduce a bottom end to boat anchor pretty quickly. you really need a forged steel crankshaft, rods, etc... forged dished pistons, a little looser bearing and piston to wall clearances, better heads, different type cam, different intake, different injectors, and the list goes on... etc...

bottom line is if you have to ask whether one is available, it'll be a ton cheaper, more effective and more reliable to buy a performance marine engine from someone and replace the current one...
 
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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

Ok well the boat is 2003 20 Outlaw. It runs damn good as is at 66mph GPS. I just want a rocket ship and I figured a supercharger was the best way to go about getting it.

I'm still a little confused about the outdrive issue. Would a Bravo outdrive be able to be swapped in for an alpha? Also, where are some good places I could look for a performance marine engine. I'd like to get 80mph out of this boat by summer. Any and all suggestions and help are greatly appreciated!
 

TilliamWe

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

I'm still a little confused about the outdrive issue. Would a Bravo outdrive be able to be swapped in for an alpha? ...

Not directly, no. You would need an engine coupler, complete transom assembly, outdrive, and engine driven raw water pump. Maybe more, I might be forgetting something.
 
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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

So it seems as if I'm kinda limited to the modifications I can do to my motor because the alpha just don't handle it.
 

wca_tim

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

What will it take to kill this myth? :D

An outdrive is limited by how much torgue it can handle. (It is NOTHING like a car at all.) When the driver dumps the thottle in a hole shot the engine produces far less torgue at low RPM than at high RPM. Babying the drive coming out of the hole won't make a bit of difference when your going to run at 70% + of max RPM on a regular basis.

not picking nor trying to start an arguement...

I'm under the impression that it's not just torque that kills the (any) drive, it's the difference between the available torque and resistance to that torque.

Before you're on plane, the resistance to accelleration is much greater and thus the strain on the drive much greater.

when you're on plane and stiff arm the throttle, the majority of available torque is applied to accellerating the boat.

before you're on plane, since the boat has a much greater resistance to accelleration, much more of the torque is applied to deforming (destroying) gears, shafts, etc.. in the drive.

For the same reason, a larger boat with the same engine will be a lot harder on a given drive...

I could be wrong, but that's my current impression...
 

wca_tim

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

So it seems as if I'm kinda limited to the modifications I can do to my motor because the alpha just don't handle it.


you have a good bit of room to go on your current set-up before you have a lot to really worry about. Lots of folks routinely put 400-500 horsepower through alpha drives - just keep a spare, run good gear lube, and don't hammer it too hard all the time... do some searches, there's lots of information about the pros and cons... all other things equal, it'll be a little faster with an alpha drive... and for what a bravo conversion costs you can blow up a few alpha drives...

that's my take on it anyhow...
 

Bondo

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

It runs damn good as is at 66mph GPS. I'd like to get 80mph out of this boat by summer. Any and all suggestions and help are greatly appreciated!

Ayuh,... A Realistic expectation would be nice...
To do what you say you want to do would only take another 500hp or so... Maybe More...
 

wca_tim

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

Bond-o is right on... a general rule of thumb is that it'll take around 10 horsepower per mph gain you want. that's peak horsepower dead on with wot max rpms... getting to that is not that hard with a small block in your boat...

the real challenge would be getting to there and still having a broad and flat enough torque curve that your boat has enough power out of the hole to be usable for anything but top speed runs...

realistically, 80+ mph and reliable, usable, daily family play and water sports boat is big block / bravo drive territory... not even a stock big block that would come in your boat...

it CAN be done with a smallblock of course, but not without a good bit of cash (like maybe $10k in engine build) and probably not one that can be expected to be a gas and go last for as long as you take care of it kind of a set-up. fun toys, but what do you want do you REALLY want... everything comes at a cost

the biggest question is: how much do you want to spend? :D
 

180shabah

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

...and the longer you run it at high speed/high load the more heat is generated. Alphas are already hot running drives. Look how many of them out there have that pretty chalky white coating on them, with nothing more than a stock 4.3 in front of them.
 

Mischief Managed

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

Assuming the same prop efficiency, if you can really hit 66 with your 260 HP motor, you'll need 382 HP to hit 80. 500 HP will yeild 91.5 MPH.

You could easily get 382 PSHP out of a normally-aspirated small block without exceeding the torque limit of the Alpha leg by much. I think a blue-printed and balanced 383 with headers and through-hulls, designed to max out around 5500 RPM, would get you there with about 425 HP at the crank.
 

mylesm260

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

From an engineering view point:

The drive train is designed for a maximum amount of torgue, for arguments sake lets say 400 lb ft. A 350 (5.7) will get close to that at higher RPMs (3000 RPM and up) but no where near that at say 1000 or 1500 RPM from a WOT hole shot. Lets take you analogy with a big heavy boat and a theroretical engine (diesel?) that cranks out 250 lb ft at 2000 RPM. The drive could handle that load day in and day out without any issues. (Well below the 400 lb ft max.)

Or if you like, go the other way. Your 350 is running at 4800 RPM at WOT and is putting out say 350 lb ft. That is approaching the drives maximum rated torgue and is more likely to fail. It doesn't matter at all to the gears and shafts what the load is, as long as it doesn't cause resistance that would require the engine to input more torque than they are desinged for. As the 350 is not capable of exceeding the maximum input, especially at low RPM, a WOT hole shot does not present a danger to the drive.




You guys are touching on a few different subjects here.

Couple things to keep in mind.

Wear = RPMS Squared.

Ever bog down you're angle grinder that's designed to work at 13000 rpms?
Ever roast a drill bit trying to drill into steel because you're rpms are too high?


The TORQUE being put through the drive is going to effect the PSI between the teeth on the gears.

The RPMS is going to wear them down.

a mathematical formula would look something like this

wear = ( rpms * rpms ) * torque

Chance of sudden catastrophic failure = peak torque

Think of it this way:

300 ft/lbs of torque @ 0 rpms = last forever
600 ft/lbs of torque @ 0 rpms = sheer the teeth of the gears, fail

300 ft/lbs of torque @ 100 rpms = 1,000,000 hours of life
300 ft/lbs of torque @ 1000 rpms = 10,000 hours of life
150 ft/lbs of torque @ 1000 rpms = 20,000 hours of life

300 ft/lbs of torque @ 4000 rpms = 2,000 hours of life.

450 ft/lbs of toque @ 4500 rpms = 400 hours of life..


these numbers are kind of off the top of my head, but you get the idea.


And were not even factoring in heat. which is a whole other variable.


needless to say, supercharging a 305 to 350-400 hp would reduce the alpha's life span and greatly increase it's chances of sudden failure. A tru-hull exhaust would help greatly.

For all the screwing around, if you're boat is slippery enough to be hitting 66 MPH with a 305, you're best upgrade without effectively writing off you're current boat would be a 5.7. Anything more than that, and you're looking at a bravo, which, for all practical purposes means new boat.

with the 5.7, you'd be doing 68-73 or so, and if you wanted to go faster than THAT, you're best bet would be to move away from an IB/OB setup entirely.
 

rodbolt

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

or simply purchase the mercruiser 6.2 high output engine and go play.
your still gonna see some drive issues and I would switch to a heavier 1.5 or 1.32 gear and bearing set.
for supercharging you may find the stock exhaust wont work.
some lakes and ares wont allow open exhaust and even if they do you may wake up with a sunk boat due to teed off neighbors, not everyone enjoys the noise on a peaceful day fishing.
the 6.2 is about 375HP out of the crate and while I doubt youll hit 80 with it mid seventies may be possible.
add a crank driven seawater pump and raise the X diminsion a few inches may allow you to break 80 with the 6.2 and the gear ratio change.
 

300sflyer

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

One thing no one has mentioned thus far, is the safety aspect of all that extra HP. Going 80 MPH accross the water in a small boat, has some serious consequences should something go wrong...:eek:

What is the maximum HP the boat is rated for? Exceeed that, and you are asking for serious trouble, in oh so many different ways...
 

mylesm260

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

One thing no one has mentioned thus far, is the safety aspect of all that extra HP. Going 80 MPH accross the water in a small boat, has some serious consequences should something go wrong...:eek:

What is the maximum HP the boat is rated for? Exceeed that, and you are asking for serious trouble, in oh so many different ways...

That's a pretty valid point!
 

wca_tim

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Re: 5.0L MPI Supercharger

we're all on the same page regarding taking it easy on an "overpowered" drive... I've killed two of them now, BUT when looking into it carefully, in both cases, it was a failure on my part to be meticulous with the maintenence. the one I burnt the gears up on showed evidence of a slight amount of water intrusion which would have broached the hardened surface on the gears, heat builds up and next thing you know little bits metal and a bunch of burnt black (that was green merc the day before) gear lube drains out the bottom.:eek:

I've switched to redline shockproof lube on the advice of a guy that builds hot rod drives. Much better wear properties between gear surfaces and can handle lot higher temperatures.

The other big one that's not mentioned above but I've been told is important for alpha drives (not an issue with bravo)... is that a lot of alpha drives behind built small blocks break because they get shifted into gear at higher rpms - chipping a tooth and creating a sight for failure once it's turned up. the guys here that run them with bigger power (one with a blown stroked small block on race gas that's probably somewhere around 600 horsepower) have a neutral safety bypass button and start them in gear except when it would ne unsafe to do so of course.

In addition to wear, the amount of deformation in the shafts and housing under heavy loads can put gears out of place and then things start to fly... large changes in momentum for drive train - ie hitting something, catching air with the throttle pinned (landing is what kills it) and so forth...

do note that the load on the drive is not at all directly proportional to the torque dyno numbers, and tha the torque for most close to factory marine engines is almost as high at 1500 rpms as it is at peak... also, when more of the torque is used to creat accelleration, the give of the prop relieves some of the stress on the gearsets. in short, it's complicated and I'm not sure yet what all is important. it doesn't really matter - I rarely need more than half throttle out of the hole to point the bow past where I can see it or pull even a big guy out on a slalom ski...

the last and probably most important point I would echo strongly (for myself to listen to as well!) is the safety one. A stock steering failure, breaking a gimbal ring or bell housing going 90, even just hitting a wake wrong and losing control, or if you've ever stuffed a boat even going fairly slow you know that's a scary thing - going fast and people can eat the windshield, etc... would lead to a world of hurt... (pretty reasonable chance of death - especially to an unwary passenger if the boat flipped and took a tumble or two goig that fast). Remember to wear lanyards, helmet and have at least a steering stabilizer installed as you get faster... and don't be silly running like that with unwary passengers in the boat, etc...

I really like being able to cruise easy at 50 or so so we can get places in less than an eternity, but I don't run flat even out in my not really so fast boat except when I'm by myself or with someone who's in the know...

to put the safety issue in perspective, a month or so ago two guys I know from playing on the river collided. Frome what I understand when they hit, the point of the prow of the bigger heavier (21 ft check) boat caught the driver of the smaller boat (15-16 ft alli) in the head - he died and the guy driving the bigger boat is going to undoubdtedly spend a lot of time coming to terms with watching a good friend die on the front of his boat. I wasn't there and don't know all the details, etc... both boats were fast outboard rigs, and both the guys driving were in their 40's and grew up on the river running fast boats for years. they were both out playing almost every weekend. I also understand they hadn't been drinking...
 
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