Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

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rogerwa

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

Did anyone else study the Pinto situation in college?? There is established and mature case studies on how to do this stuff. In the end it is a CBA in the MFg's part. Just like the Pinto, this CBA invilved human life. And that is where Toyata shoudl take it in the shorts..
 

bassman284

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

The part supplier is CTS, based in Indiana. We have 10 provinces and 2 territories...Indiana is not among 'em. :rolleyes:




Maybe not, but you certainly posted erroneous info that points in the wrong direction. :eek:

CTS Corp is headquartered in Elkhart Indiana. The plant that built the Toyota part is in Streetsville Ontario.
 

skargo

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

What he said ^^^^^ common sense.BUT, Turn the ignition back 1 click.

NOT the way I would do it at all. You turn the ignition off, you lose a lot of control.
The way I was taught, and told my wife to do it is to throw it in neutral, and pull over safely, still having full power brakes and steering. THEN turn the ign off.
I don't understand the CHP who had the Lexus that crashed and killed everyone in the car. He, or a passenger had time to call 911, but he never threw it in neutral, he kept trying to turn it off. It was a pushbutton start. In the owner's manual it says to hold the button for 3 seconds IIRC.
Not to make light of that tragedy, but we are such an over-protective, litigious society, you don't even have to take responsibility for operator error anymore.

They say the Audi unintended acceleration was found to be user error in most cases.

Toyota is fixing the issue, they will spend a few bucks, then be right back where they were. Most people here who start these bash threads didn't like them anyway, so it's not like they would buy one anyway. Those of us who have experienced their great quality will continue to buy them. My wife drives a 4runner, it;s her 2nd one and they have both been great.
I drive a Dodge, but have driven a toy as a DD in the past.
 

gonefishie

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

Dang Skargo, I knew it all along that there's a sensible part of you hiding underneath that exterior. :D I'm actually agreed with what ya saying.
 

skargo

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

Dang Skargo, I knew it all along that there's a sensible part of you hiding underneath that exterior. :D I'm actually agreed with what ya saying.

I'm like a candy, with a crunchy outside. Once you get through that, I'm all sweet goodness inside hehehehe :p
 

scoutabout

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

NOT the way I would do it at all. You turn the ignition off, you lose a lot of control.
The way I was taught, and told my wife to do it is to throw it in neutral, and pull over safely, still having full power brakes and steering. THEN turn the ign off.....

Good info skargo. I had a full-on unintended acceleration issue last year.

I was turing right out of a residential side street onto quite a fast intermediate road. I hammered it from a dead stop to get into a clear spot before oncoming traffic reached me. I merged and it was all good until I lifted off the gas and....no effect. I was still under full acceleration.

This was a Mazda Millenia S type (supercharged, intercooled V6) so it had some scat to it. Before I realized it I was climbing through 130 km/h.
First came the panic-driven, ingrained solutions. I get on the brakes hard - real hard and although the car is slowing I realize it isn't nearly effective enough considering the distance and velocity. Smoke begins pouring out of the front wheel wells as the brake pads overheat. I can't imagine what the traffic behind me was thinking. By now I'm about 500 metres from my first intersection. The light is red and there's a good flow of cross traffic and I'm approaching twice the posted speed limit and the engine is bouncing off the rev limiter.

Then some other ideas. I tried feeling around with my right toe to see where the hell the accelerator pedal was at. It seemed to be flat against the floor. I tried prying it up with my toe but no dice. So I'm thinking is the linkage jammed under the hood somehow? I tried reaching down with my hand to pull it up but I couldn't reach it and still see where I was going.

Then, finally, it comes to me. Turn the ignition off. I was very aware of the conscious concern not to turn it so far back that I would lock the steering wheel. Just....one....full....click.

The engine died and of course the braking suddenly got very stiff without the vacuum assist. Likewise the steering without power. But, without power the car slowed quickly and I pulled over onto the gravel shoulder and stopped about 50 metres short of the intersection. I don't recall having issues with lockup on gravel and now that I think of it the ABS probably wasn't active.

Once off the road and able to look down at the pedal I discovered it was indeed the floor mat that had slid over the base of the pedal and pinned it flat. There was a little metal hook that usually holds the mat in place but it had become bent out of shape allowing the mat to slide forward. Once it slide then the little rubber stubs underneath prevented me from moving it back easily.

I work in the aviation industry so am very interested in human factors issues involving safety and security. I recall reading some research that said it usually takes commercial crews about 12 full seconds to fully assimilate what the airplane is telling them, accept something is way wrong and react. In my case I was accutely aware of those precious seconds where I was thinking, "This isn't right. Can't be right. My foot is right off the pedal. Why am I not slowing down?" Questions like that can eat up a lot of time you don't have.

I never even considered banging it into neutral - a very obvious solution sitting here at the computer. In the moment with the motor screaming, smoke billowing up from the front and a quickly-approaching intersection in front I'm disappointed it wasn't my first thought, although I can accept why it might not have been.

Without training, backed up by countless hours of practice (a la aviation model) most drivers haven't a real hope of reacting adequately to any number of emergency highway scenarios.
 

TilliamWe

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

My thoughts are that Toyota is an arrogant company, who touts their cars' superiority, when they aren't. I am truly saddened that people had to die to expose the truth about the company, though. They didn't deserve that.
 

marlboro180

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

Skargo- yeah, thinking about it , neutral would be better to keep the rest of the systems running, like brake boost. Guess I was thinking of my old pre-computer Monte Carlo that had a sticky carb linkage.Had to shut it down a couple of times using the ignition to avoid disaster, Man that motor was revving like crazy before I got it shut down. I used the ignition to save the motor from blowing up, but I was on a straight road w/ no traffic, not in perilous danger. I have NO idea how I would have reacted in traffic, or busy area:eek:
That said, nowadays with a computer running things, it would be safer to go to neutral, let the motor run into the rev-limiter and let it do its thing until things are under control. Good Point.

Scoutabout- Precious little time to react is a great way of putting it....makes you think quick!( even when it seems like slow-motion)
 

cheburashka

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

My thoughts are that Toyota is an arrogant company, who touts their cars' superiority, when they aren't. I am truly saddened that people had to die to expose the truth about the company, though. They didn't deserve that.

Could have happened to any company. Has happened to many. The bashing has no place here.
 

skargo

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

Scoutabout, glad you made it out of that one.

Toyota has been great for this country, besides employing 400K people, and their charity work and their motorsports support, they made the domestic cars BETTER. Because in the 70's and 80's domestic cars couldn't compare to Toyota's quality.
Nowadays I believe all manufacturers are close to equal in quality, the domestics had to play catch up and they did.

Too bad people have to die, but it happens to all manufacturers, remember the Ford Pinto?
 

TilliamWe

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

Could have happened to any company. Has happened to many. The bashing has no place here.



The fact that it has happened to other companies (yes I remember Ford's brilliant idea to not recall the Pinto, just defend the lawsuits!) is yet another reason Toyota shouldn't have delayed in this recall. It's not bashing, it's a fact. They knew about the problem in 2007, "fixed" it on the 2008 Tundra, but kept producing cars with known flaws until last week. What else are my thoughts supposed to be?
 

Tim Frank

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

CTS Corp is headquartered in Elkhart Indiana. The plant that built the Toyota part is in Streetsville Ontario.

That was my original statement...CTS is based in Indiana.
Which of their plants it is that build Toyota components is irrelevent...they are CTS parts and not from a "Canadian subcontractor."

Does it matter that most of the Toyota vehicles in question were built at US plants? Nope, they are still Toyotas.
 

JB

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Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

Just can't resist second guessing and attacking, huh, TW?

End of story.
 
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