Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Alpha?

Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Alpha?


  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .

mylesm260

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
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444
SEI talks about better quality components and gears than OEM on their website, and they warranty the crap out of their product.

If I was pushing 430 HP @ 5200 rpms through my drive, do you think the SEI drive would hold up better than an OEM alpha?


YES I KNOW THAT MERCRUISER ONLY RATES THEIR ALPHA DRIVES FOR 300 HP.

Having said that, there are plenty of 383 people pushing 400+ hp through alpha's and report no problems.
 

haulnazz15

Captain
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Mar 9, 2009
Messages
3,720
Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

I would imagine they would hold about the same power. If I was going to be above 300HP, and looking at getting a new drive, I'd be looking at a Bravo I/III. No point in dropping 1K+ on an outdrive hoping that it holds the HP/Torque above what it's rated for. There is onl so much beefing up ou can do with bearing/etc. I believe the main weak point in the alphas was the gearing ratios themselves not being condusive to higher power levels.
 

HT32BSX115

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Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

If I was pushing 430 HP @ 5200 rpms through my drive, do you think the SEI drive would hold up better than an OEM alpha?

I could be wrong,

But if you tried to "warrenty" an SEI and you told them that, I wouldn't be surprised if they turned you down for a replacement......

Most warrenties exclude "abuse" etc...​
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
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Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

actually the SEI warrenty specifically states they WILL cover impact,fishing line,lack of oil,neglect and abuse.
I am reading it now.
thats why I no longer rebuild alphas,OMC v6,yamaha 2.6 or 3.1L gear cases.
to cheap from SEI for me to rebuild one.
you can now buy a NEW setup cheaper than the parts to rebuild your old setup.
bogus sometimes but thats the way it is.
 

TilliamWe

Banned
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
6,579
Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

Myles, an SE116 and an Alpha One Gen 2 would both be about the same. And both would be better than an SE106 and an Alpha One.
 

wca_tim

Lieutenant Commander
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May 28, 2007
Messages
1,708
Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

only one piece of evidence, but I've had a lower half behind about that much power for a couple of years now... and it has seen as high as 6000 rpms...

as has the more recent upper half i got from them...

I will tell you that the upper gears look quite beefy and well made... and that i've not had a single problem with it - and i don't baby it
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
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Dec 8, 2005
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10,083
Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

actually the SEI warrenty specifically states they WILL cover impact,fishing line,lack of oil,neglect and abuse.
...............you can now buy a NEW setup cheaper than the parts to rebuild your old setup.
bogus sometimes but thats the way it is.


Nothing bogus about that!!:redface:
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Messages
62,321
Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

First of all, it's a big waste of time. When you go to that much HP on it, there is no prop that will work. They used a 1.32 gear ratio on Alpha I's with the 330hp 454's back in 86 to 88 (Then they invented the Bravo to handle it), But that gear ratio was NEVER used on any of the Gen II Alphas. So now you would be stuck with only the 1.50 and a steeply pitched prop with no hole shot and limited in Diameter you can go with the props. So you have a lot of engine you can't use, and the first time you try you blow the drive or the alpha coupler. Wow, that sounds like fun every weekend.
 

Bondo

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70,527
Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

First of all, it's a big waste of time. When you go to that much HP on it, there is no prop that will work.

Ayuh,.... I kinda think it'd be a Fun little project,... That I'd also Expect to Fail...
At the price of the SEIs, you could almost eat 1 a year,+ have a Blast doin' it....

Don,... I think the Torque-Shift would take care of the issue you raise,...
They can be set to a max pitch of 32",... at idle, it'd be at 13"....
Even with 'em being Out of Production,...
They're around,+ a fella has picked up a 2nd career of selling,+ now producuing replacement parts....

Not that I'd ever condone, muchless participate in such a blatant Abuse of raw Horsepower,... :D
 

Don S

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Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

You might get away with one for a while by slloooooowwwwly getting on plane and then getting to full rpm. If it doesn't cavitate with a 32"pitch prop, the pressure on the blades slapping the water sideways is going to overload any Alpha drive while trying to get on step, and they aren't going to last very long at speed either. So what do you gain, the guy in the 3.0L next to you can take off faster and be where he's going by the time you get your 430HP rig up to speed without blowing up the drive. Yeah, that would be impressive.

I guess what I am trying to say, is if I was to build a 400+ hp motor, I sure as 'ell wouldn't put a wimpy azzed alpha drive behind it. Especially knowing that 300 is the recommended limit, and knowing you had to be careful with the 330hp Big Blocks back in the few years they were out or you take them out too. And that was with the proper pitch.


But if ya got money to blow for no reason, sure put one on and take it out.
 

Bondo

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Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

Ayuh,... I'm agreein',... Just sayin',...

There's been no mention of the Hull this'll happen in,...
I've got a Slickcraft, SS195 in a shop with the 5.7LX motor out of it,... the Weber 4bbl..
The owner is debating replacing the Same, or goin' MPI...
It's running an Alpha 1,... Even with the 25" al. prop,... It's a Blast to "Test drive" on the river...

I wouldn't do it on a Crab boat,.....:D
 

mylesm260

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
444
Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

The big blocks were making their HP at a much lower RPM than I would be.

I'm talking about making about 385 HP @ 5600 RPMS. The extra RPMS would make propping the boat much much easier.

This also means the drive will see much less torque than a big block.

My 23P prop holds my 220 HP 4.3 at around 4600 RPMS WOT.... I don't imagine I would need much more prop to hold a 385 HP engine @ 5600 rpms....

On top of that I don't have the tallest available gears in my leg. my thought process is, if I get a new SEI leg, I can upgrade to taller gears (v8 gears) as well.

385HP @ 5600 rpms is 383 stroker territory... And I've read of lots of people running those setups with alpha's.


GM Marine's 6.0L Gen IV
 

jaxnjil

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Aug 3, 2007
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Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

This type discussion always ends the same. "Can I send massive HP through a drive not designed for it?" Answer yes, but the drive will eat its lunch in the not so distant future. "But, I've heard other guys do it". Yes, but what you don't hear is them coming back in a year saying gee, it broke.

My take, you are looking for someone to tell you its all going to be fine. Sorry, not likely to happen. ;)

Hmm, now I wonder why SEI said no...[/QUOTE


they told me when i was looking for a alpha drive to stand up to our 454, the alpha drive from mercruiser wasn't an excepted application.

that was 3 years ago. maybe they have changed now
 

Tail_Gunner

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Jan 13, 2006
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Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

mylesm how big of boat are you trying to push with that drive..22 ft and below with proper throttle control would be of big part of the decision..Now if your pushing a larger 24' boat and say 5000 lbs or up that type of load would be of big concern for myself.

Think long term or overall load in this type of scenario.
 

mylesm260

Chief Petty Officer
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Sep 13, 2007
Messages
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Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

20' open bow

sits on a single axel trailer that (with the boat on it) weighs in at about 3300 lbs of axel weight plus about 300 lbs on the tongue.

so 3600 lbs - whatever the trailer weighs = 2500-2800 or so?


right now I've got a 4.3 220 HP which pushes me to about 55-58 MPH GPS with a 23P prop @ 4600 RPMS or so, give or take. (these RPMS and MPH figures are with nobody in the boat but me)

With 8 people, I have a hard time breaking 50MPH...
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

60 plus is a lot of speed for a 20' hull..:D..But given the cost of a sei the relativley light load and a tempered hand on the button..You could blow a couple of drives and still be ahead..;)

Maybe a drive shower would be in order here, couple of props High and low speed..Id say with proper caution it should not be a problem.
 

mylesm260

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Sep 13, 2007
Messages
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Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

And the best part about blowing an SEI drive is they replace em' for free!



Alpha's blow with big blocks because big blocks make a lot of torque and a lot of heat.


The gen IV small blocks are more efficient thus they make less heat.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

You should also note that you are somewhat predisposed to tinkering around a bit. and .more than capable of rehanging the drive yourself..Something a casual weekend boater probably should not pursue..;)
 

wca_tim

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May 28, 2007
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Re: Poll: Do think think a SE106/SE116 will handle more than 300 HP better than an Al

on a lighter faster boat, should be fine.

The only drives I've broken have been my fault (one water intrusion, another I didn't do a good enough job checking ujoints apparently). I've been running various combinations of merc and sei uppers and lowers for the past year or so behind a 400+ horsepower 383. A fair number of folks here do it and very seldom have problems. I'm far from easy on stuff personally. I will have cloer to if not over 500 horsepower when I put things back together this time and know of none guy on the river that's running close to 90 with a blown smallblock in front of an alpha drive...

My understanding is that even more of a help to the drive temp is running through hull exhaust so that you're not heating the hot exhaust gasses.

run good lube in it, check and change it often.

why would I run an alpha instead of a bravo? the main reasons are above, most small boats that you want to "overpower" will come with an alpha drive and so it's pretty major to change the whole drive assembly out. especially when it will be slower with the bravo drive or require more power to hit the same speed. bravo is a little heavier, has more wetted surface area and a little more mechanical loss than an alpha. and you can afford to frag a few sei drives for the cost of even a used upgrade.

the prop issue really isn't one. in the extreme of a 32" prop, you would have to be running over 100 mph with a 1.5 gear before you need that much pitch.

With 400 hp, we're talking more like 60s or 70s depending on the hull and the engine. For the standard gear ratios of 1.81 - 1.5 to 1 you're likely to wind up, that corresponds to 23" - 29" props. there are a lot very well designed props in those ranges that work well on an alpha drive. many available for very reasonable used prices.

I've now gone through prop selection on my current 17 1/2 foot, about 2300 pound 400 hp 383 boat with 1.32, 1.47, 1.65 and 1.81 gears and although it was fastest propped right with the 1.81 gear, have had it well into the 70's with each of the combos. Some of the props that have worked well include (and depending obviously on the gear ratio), 19" predator, 21", 23, and 25" laser 2, 22" solas, 27" mirage, 27" and 28" mach 4 sterndriver, 29" hydromotive intimidator, etc...

a big caveat to this is be safe. We had a collision here last weekend. I knew both of the guys from around. one of them died. Once you start going much faster and pushing things to the edge, make sure you think aobut things like using the safety lanyard and kill switch, having at minimum a steering stabilizer on your drive incase you break something (like the gimbal or steering assembly) going fast.

the accident this weekend has me rethinking some things in my set-up that's for sure... the collision was between an allison and an outboard checkmate... the guy in the allison didn't make it.

on the original question, I don't know... I do know that the upper gear sets in the sei drives i've had are pretty beefy and seem to hold up very good to wear....

just my personal experience and observations...

OH, and I should add that at least with my little boat, any of the above gear ratios when propped to put max hp near wot will easily pull skiers out of the water with less than half throttle... or stand the boat up in the water if you give it enough throttle from a slow start... have fun!!
 
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