1208 biax pros n cons..

[86RajunCajun]

Re: 1208 biax pros n cons..

Wow this thread sparked a bit of a discussion! Glad to see all you great minds converging here to help little old me out with these questions!

My boat had what appeared to be 1 layer of some pretty decent thickness material over the transom and knee braces. It was all 1 layup that covered everything. The material that was used looked like chopped strand but it looked heavier than 1.5oz for sure. The transom was VERY rigid with just this layer over everything, so i think that i will likely just order enough material to go 2 layers just to ease my mind and call it a day.

I havnt had as much time as i would like lately to do anything other than work, <so sad > but i will keep on plugging away when i get a break from the daily grind of work and life.

You guys really lay the info out there and i am very very grateful for the help you offer!

So heres a question...

If it safe to just work with 1 material for all my structural glassing? I see people using like 4 different typed of glass for structural tasks and this boggles my mind a bit lol.

For example, can i use the 1708, or 1208 for the sake of this thread, to tab my transom, tab my stringers and bulkheads, and to do the final encasing work on my knee braces, transom and stringers, or do i need to use certain glass to do the tabbing and then the 1208 to do the encasing?

I would love to be able to just buy one big old roll of 1 material and lay up everything at once if it is a proper way of building the inner structure of the boat.

I guess a bit of background on my boat would help determine what to use huh! In case some of you havnt seen it, my restore thread is here http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=363827

It appears my boat was built using woven roving of a pretty decent thickness and poly resin from the factory. The stringers, transom and deck were all glassed in using what appears to be the same material, possibly a heavy ounce CSM material or maybe even a biax material, i am not sure. There are pics in my resto thread where you can see pretty well the material used from the factory. What do you guys think it is?

Thanks again for all your opinions and information! All info is very valuable to me

RC

 

[system-f]

Re: 1208 biax pros n cons..

So...anyone try that 1208? I really wonder if it is that much easier to work with than 1708.

I meant this as more of a joke to steer the topic back towards 1208, but as usual I learn something when erikgreen and ondarvr respond to the tangents.


From a regular guy on a middle class salary that likes to go out on his old boat that has been fixed up perspective, 1208 seems nearly useless. For the less the cost I can go with stronger 1708 or even 1808. I won't get the same conformability, but I don't need it for most of the high strength areas I am covering.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 1208 biax pros n cons..

It could be done with one product, but this would make it a little more difficult depending on your skill level.

Its possible to use only 1208 or 1708 because they do have some mat attached, but using CSM makes many things much easier. CSM will conform to an odd shape much easier than any type of woven or stitched product, so using a small amount here and there can make a big difference. On a large smooth flat surface no additional CSM would be needed, but on stringers, knees, and other odd shaped structures, using a layer of CSM along with another fabric can make things go much better with less frustration.

They covered the inside of your hull and braces with chop because its very easy to apply and can be rolled down in just a few minutes, it would be stronger with a different material, but it worked and didn't appear to fail.

As for converting the layout to a CC, look at how most bass boats are laid out, its not in a CC configuration, its either a side console, or dual side console. The reason is that this setup works the best for 99% of what you?re going to use it for. The smaller the boat, the less useful a CC layout becomes.

 

[Robert4Winns]

Re: 1208 biax pros n cons..

From a regular guy on a middle class salary that likes to go out on his old boat that has been fixed up perspective, 1208 seems nearly useless. For the less the cost I can go with stronger 1708 or even 1808. I won't get the same conformability, but I don't need it for most of the high strength areas I am covering.

I checked the US Composites site and the 1208 is less expensive than the 1708 in the same width; but the 1708 in the 38? width is less expensive than 1208 in 50? width. Although the difference in cost is not that much. Also, the 1808 they have is not 45 degrees.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: 1208 biax pros n cons..

From a regular guy on a middle class salary that likes to go out on his old boat that has been fixed up perspective, 1208 seems nearly useless. For the less the cost I can go with stronger 1708 or even 1808. I won't get the same conformability, but I don't need it for most of the high strength areas I am covering.

This is worth noting... like ondarvr says, you can do it all with CSM if you want. Likewise you can re-do that 12 foot fiberglass canoe with carbon fiber and kevlar. The "best" material for your use is the one that meets your needs, economic, engineering, and otherwise.

If you know CSM and bondo resin do what you need (and you aren't just guessing that they're enough) then go for it, it's cheap.

But just because that's what's worked for you doesn't mean it'll work for everyone, or that it's the "best" choice. There are too many people here who champion particular materials or techniques because it's what they did, and they're looking for validation, whether they know it or not.

It's a toolbox.. there's no "best" material for every job just like there's no "best" oil for boats. Be glad you have more than one choice

Erik

 

[86RajunCajun]

Re: 1208 biax pros n cons..

You guys are awsome, thanks a million..

Based on what iv read and the advice iv been given, i think i will go with 1708 for my main structural strength material, and i will do my tabbing with CSM.

To top my deck i will use a 6oz cloth with a waxed finishing layup to be painted with no skid paint.

Thanks again for all you help guys! Looks like i too will be using 3 products to do the job...1708, CSM, and 6oz cloth.

I would consider this topic answered so if a mod wants to lock it away to the history books, please feel free.

Have fun with your projects everyone!

RC

 

[system-f]

Re: 1208 biax pros n cons..

That is exactly what I used, 1708 50" and 12" , 7oz 50" , 1 1/2oz CSM 50" and 12". The 12" 1708 and csm tapes come in real handy. In fact the 1708 tape is so much more handy and easy to use you will find yourself tabbing with it more often.

 

[NSBCraig]

Re: 1208 biax pros n cons..

Yeah I like tabing with 1708 tape. but really you could just cut strips of 1708 and it's the same thing. Tape is just easier.

 

[86RajunCajun]

Re: 1208 biax pros n cons..

Ah ok so 1708 tape for tabbing sounds like a better bet than CSM. I know the CSM isnt as strong as the 1708 so that is a plus for using it instead, and i would love to get away with just buying 2 types of material!

So hows that sound guys...1708 tape 12" for tabbing, and 1708 50" for my hull base layups, and all my structural layups...then 6oz cloth for my finishing layups with waxed resin?

Im learning a lot and feeling more and more confident about doing this job.

Now if i could just get some dumb sucker to grind out all the old glass for me i would be in heaven! LOL

RC

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 1208 biax pros n cons..

It's a toolbox.. there's no "best" material for every job just like there's no "best" oil for boats. Be glad you have more than one choice

Erik

Like Erik said, "its a tool box", no need to limit your options on what to work with. Look at the cost of each product, the CSM should be lower, so use it where its needed. Plus if you plan to re-make the console and re-position everything, CSM will definitely be needed.

 

[86RajunCajun]

Re: 1208 biax pros n cons..

Ok, i see what ya mean...use what works and is cost effective lol. I tend to over anylize things sometimes. Its my nature.

Thanks for the info guys!

RC