Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

[pabloescobedo96]

Hello I have a 35EL79A -35 johnson from 1979.
The starter will occasionally screw up and spin but not jump up and engage the flywheel. I was looking for an aftermarket starter but having a little trouble finding one. I found where you can buy the parts for rebuilding though. What mechanism causes the starter gear to spring up when started? can it be replaced? would it be better to just get a new starter? Thanks

 

[bktheking]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

That's the starter drive or "bendix" as it's known. How certain are you that the starter is the problem and not the battery, cables, switch or solednoid? If it is the starter a rebuild shop can rebuild the one you have.

 

[pabloescobedo96]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

That's the starter drive or "bendix" as it's known. How certain are you that the starter is the problem and not the battery, cables, switch or solednoid? If it is the starter a rebuild shop can rebuild the one you have.

Not certain at all.

 

[nastyquedawg]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

I had a similar problem with my 1988 88hp Johnson. It was my connections that were giving me the problem. So I cleaned my battery connections and the connection of the 12v cable going to the starter. I have not had that issue since.

 

[pabloescobedo96]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

I had a similar problem with my 1988 88hp Johnson. It was my connections that were giving me the problem. So I cleaned my battery connections and the connection of the 12v cable going to the starter. I have not had that issue since.

Could be this. If it didnt have full power it may not be able to throw the drive in mesh with the flywheel. But it's just so intermitant it makes me think starter. I already tried cleaning cable ends and such.

 

[bktheking]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

Dude, seriously, I'm trying to help you out, I don't need the "so once again for anyone else" type reply or the you tell me how sure I am stuff. It's centerfugal speed the causes it to engage and a spring above the gear that causes it to disengage. The simple checks like batteries , solenoids and cables are starting points as you in your first post didn't bother including as you feel this stuff is "cut and dry". Why don't you try cleaning it and lubricating it, it may solve your problem. Or you could take it to a starter shop like I suggested and have it checked out. It's a boat motor and they cost money to fix, if you don't want to spend money why don't you take up another hobby.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

Read up on this link. Post back if you need any further info.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=303982

bktheking is trying to help you. He is giving you good advice and you don't seem to want to take it.

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

Centrifugal force makes the bendix go up. If the starter does not spin fast enough it will not go up properly. Yes a bad solenoid can cause this problem. Over time the contacts in it gets burnt and does not supply the current needed for the starter. The lugs on the battery cables can get corroded inside where you can't see it and cause that problem. The shaft that the bendix rides up and down on must be clean and lightly lubed. You should be able to manually turn the bendix up to engage the flywheel without it binding. And yes it can be the starter itself but 90% of all starter problems is due to the battery or cables. Check it by using a pair of jumper cables from the battery straight to the starter. This simple test will tell you for sure where the problem is.

 

[pabloescobedo96]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

Dude, seriously, I'm trying to help you out, I don't need the "so once again for anyone else" type reply or the you tell me how sure I am stuff. It's centerfugal speed the causes it to engage and a spring above the gear that causes it to disengage. The simple checks like batteries , solenoids and cables are starting points as you in your first post didn't bother including as you feel this stuff is "cut and dry". Why don't you try cleaning it and lubricating it, it may solve your problem. Or you could take it to a starter shop like I suggested and have it checked out. It's a boat motor and they cost money to fix, if you don't want to spend money why don't you take up another hobby.

Sorry, I'm not trying to cause any ruckus. do But you've responded to all my threads multiple times. please give others a chance to jump in. Thanks

 

[bktheking]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

Consider it the last.

 

[pabloescobedo96]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

Centrifugal force makes the bendix go up. If the starter does not spin fast enough it will not go up properly. Yes a bad solenoid can cause this problem. Over time the contacts in it gets burnt and does not supply the current needed for the starter. The lugs on the battery cables can get corroded inside where you can't see it and cause that problem. The shaft that the bendix rides up and down on must be clean and lightly lubed. You should be able to manually turn the bendix up to engage the flywheel without it binding. And yes it can be the starter itself but 90% of all starter problems is due to the battery or cables. Check it by using a pair of jumper cables from the battery straight to the starter. This simple test will tell you for sure where the problem is.

Very good info there. thank you

 

[pabloescobedo96]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

Read up on this link. Post back if you need any further info.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=303982

bktheking is trying to help you. He is giving you good advice and you don't seem to want to take it.

OK well it looks like its probably not the starter.

bktheking IS trying to help me and his advice is fine. I guess its just everytime I make a thread he seems to monopolize the conversation. I just would like other peoples info. sorry I really shouldnt have posted that and kind of feel like a **** for it.

 

[bktheking]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

I don't monopolize anything, I ask questions based on the posts. Do you walk into your doctors office and he hands you a prescription for morphine without asking you a single thing, I don't think so. Your posts don't include vidal information in troubleshooting so I ask the questions, i'm not a fricken mind reader. Marine starters are almost bulletproof, that's why 99% of the time the starter isn't the problem and millions of 20 and 30 year old boats on the water have never had a starter replaced. Solenoids, cables, corrosion can cause these issues, that's why I asked if you checked all this stuff out first. I troubleshoot for a living, I work on networks and servers for a living, outboards and motors are play, the first thing you do is ask questions when troubleshooting.

 

[pabloescobedo96]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

I don't monopolize anything, I ask questions based on the posts. Do you walk into your doctors office and he hands you a prescription for morphine without asking you a single thing, I don't think so. Your posts don't include vidal information in troubleshooting so I ask the questions, i'm not a fricken mind reader. Marine starters are almost bulletproof, that's why 99% of the time the starter isn't the problem and millions of 20 and 30 year old boats on the water have never had a starter replaced. Solenoids, cables, corrosion can cause these issues, that's why I asked if you checked all this stuff out first. I troubleshoot for a living, I work on networks and servers for a living, outboards and motors are play, the first thing you do is ask questions when troubleshooting.

Fair enough

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

Put a volt meter across the starter terminal, and ground. See what the reading is when you crank the starter. Then you know.

 

[JB]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

Just a little terminology nit-pick:

The Bendix gear is mounted on spiral grooves in the starter shaft and held down (when not engaged) by a spring.

When the starter motor is engaged it starts to spin the shaft and the gear can't accellerate that fast so it slides up the grooves until it engages the flywheel. That is inertia.

When the engine starts it tries to spin the Bendix gear faster than the starter shaft, which forces the gear back down the grooved shaft. You remove power from the starter motor and the spring puts the Bendix gear back to the bottom of the shaft.

Centrifugal force is not involved.

If the starter motor does not have enough power to accelerate quickly or if the groove to Bendix gear surface is not sufficiently lubricated the gear will not "pop" up.

The most common cause of this fault, as tashasdaddy explains, is intermittent failure in the high current circuit. . .usually due to corrosion in a connection. The most common connection fault is where the tinned copper end of the battery ground cable is bolted by a steel bolt to the alloy engine block. Terrible dissimilar metals connection which can corrode while very tight and appearing very clean.

Now. Troubleshooting. Changing parts is the most used, most expensive and least effective troubleshooting method known to man.

Effective troubleshooting is asking questions or performing tests to eliminate possible causes of a fault. That is what bk is trying to do, and/or guide you to doing. When his questions are good ones most of us just watch. That is why he may seem to dominate a thread.

 

[F_R]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

Just a little terminology nit-pick:

The Bendix gear is mounted on spiral grooves in the starter shaft and held down (when not engaged) by a spring.

When the starter motor is engaged it starts to spin the shaft and the gear can't accellerate that fast so it slides up the grooves until it engages the flywheel. That is inertia.

When the engine starts it tries to spin the Bendix gear faster than the starter shaft, which forces the gear back down the grooved shaft. You remove power from the starter motor and the spring puts the Bendix gear back to the bottom of the shaft.

Centrifugal force is not involved.

If the starter motor does not have enough power to accelerate quickly or if the groove to Bendix gear surface is not sufficiently lubricated the gear will not "pop" up.

The most common cause of this fault, as tashasdaddy explains, is intermittent failure in the high current circuit. . .usually due to corrosion in a connection. The most common connection fault is where the tinned copper end of the battery ground cable is bolted by a steel bolt to the alloy engine block. Terrible dissimilar metals connection which can corrode while very tight and appearing very clean.

Now. Troubleshooting. Changing parts is the most used, most expensive and least effective troubleshooting method known to man.

Effective troubleshooting is asking questions or performing tests to eliminate possible causes of a fault. That is what bk is trying to do, and/or guide you to doing. When his questions are good ones most of us just watch. That is why he may seem to dominate a thread.

Agree, it is inertia, not centrifugal force. But we know what the poster meant. And it is the flywheel turning faster than the starter that kicks it back down. The spring is to keep it down, otherwise vibration causes it to dance around and bounce up and "ding" as it momentarily contacts the flywheel. It usually is called an anti-drift spring. Just tossing this in, since there seems to me mass misunderstanding about the operation of a "bendix". The question comes up often.

 

[pabloescobedo96]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

I went out and tried to start it and it would spin everytime not pop up.

I grabed the wd-40 and sprayed it down and then it started everytime.

So it may be sticking down in there. I didn't take the time to test cables or anything yet.

I'm sure the more battery power you have, the less likely it is to stick even if it isn't sliding up smoothly.

 

[bkwapisz]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

I went out and tried to start it and it would spin everytime not pop up.

I grabed the wd-40 and sprayed it down and then it started everytime.

So it may be sticking down in there. I didn't take the time to test cables or anything yet.

I'm sure the more battery power you have, the less likely it is to stick even if it isn't sliding up smoothly.

There's another thread on here about not over-doing the spray lubricants on that shaft as it can damage the internals of the starter motor if it leaks in there. Get a little dab of fresh grease and lube your shaft with it. LOL.

 

[JB]

Re: Starter spins but won't engage flywheel

"Get a little dab of fresh grease and lube your shaft with it."

Bad idea. A few drops of very fine machine oil is best. Grease can actually cause the Bendix gear to stick.

I always use Singer sewing machine oil.