Automatic Bilge pump failure?

[chiefers1]

I have a 2004 Four Winns Horizon 280. My automatic Bilges won't work. My Bilge switch is lit at the helm but bilges are not on. I cannot turn on with helm switch either. Why?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

A tall question but:
Usually the indicator shows power being applied to a circuit but may be a false reading. You need 2 things to make an electrical part function ,Voltage and Current. Check to make sure the wires at the pump and the automatic switch are not corroded.Make sure power is coming down from the helm switch to the pump. MAKE SURE THE GROUND WIRE IS A GOOD GROUND.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

Ayuh,... My 1st Guess is, your bilge pump bit the dust....Or possibly it's clogged...
Pull it out,+ Test it...

 

[chiefers1]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

Ayuh,... My 1st Guess is, your bilge pump bit the dust....Or possibly it's clogged...
Pull it out,+ Test it...

How do I test it?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

Most wiring is + Brown
- Black
Remove the pump and put it across a 12V source

 

[chiefers1]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

Why would the light be lit on the toggle switch at the helm?

 

[dingbat]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

A short

 

[chiefers1]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

A short

How do I troubleshoot a short? And I have only the right hand to do itt with? Left paralyazed....

 

[Bondo]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

How do I troubleshoot a short? And I have only the right hand to do itt with? Left paralyazed....

Ayuh,... Diagnostics are done in a sequential order,...
1st step is to verify there's Power,+ Ground to the appliance(your bilge pump in this case)...
If there Is,... It's not a short...

The indicator light only means there's power to the Switch,... The pump is still downstream...

If you can't do it because of your handicap, You'll need to find somebody who Can do it...

 

[chiefers1]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

that does help..thanks

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

Shorts blow fuses. If fuses are not blown you do not have a short.

 

[chiefers1]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

there are no blown fuses in my main fuse panel and the dedicated fuse by my battery swith/selector is not tripped either. Could it be the biolges are plugged? But if plugged up wouldn't I hear them trying to operate anyway?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

You have just a couple choices here. Learn how to use a test light or voltmeter or find someone who can help you. You need to follow the current from the switch to the motor. If there is 12 volts at the motor and the motor has a good ground, it's stalled or its toast. If it was stalled, chances are the fuse would be blown due to the high current draw. If the indicator in the switch is lit, then you know there is power TO the switch. Next check for power OUT of the switch. Then to the motor.

 

[gss036]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

It may be easier to just buy a new pump if you have power going to pump. They do bind up over time, my last one would turn, but not very easy and if the has been a lot of dirt/crud in the bilge, the stuff can get stuck in the impeller part. They only cost about $100.00.

 

[Fisnfool]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

there are no blown fuses in my main fuse panel and the dedicated fuse by my battery switch/selector is not tripped either. Could it be the bilges are plugged? But if plugged up wouldn't I hear them trying to operate anyway?

Not all shorts blow fuses. A worn chaffed wire that is crossing the switch light circuit could light the switch. I had this happen to other dash lights. BUT, if the switch is being lit from another circuit, it should either be on all the time or only when the other accessory is turned.

The lighted switch only means there is power to the switch but it is a separate feed to the lighted side and not the wire that actually goes to the pump.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

Here is a picture of the internals of a lighted switch. No separate circuit involved.

 

[Fisnfool]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

Here is a picture of the internals of a lighted switch. No separate circuit involved.

Actually your picture does show a separate circuit. It is internal to the switch.
A positive source shorting anywhere along the length of a wire connected to the #1 contact from another circuit would light the light but that should pulse the bilge pump too unless the pump motor has failed or the pump motor ground is bad. Or the short is enough voltage to light the light to a visible level but not enough voltage to run the pump because of corrosion at the short. A 12 volt source wire rubbing together with the wire that goes to point #1 anywhere in the wiring harness until the insulation is worn could do this.

First circuit for normal operation, when the center contact #2 (12 volt source) closes, power flows through contact #1 to the light then to point #3, a ground point for the light and not an internal switch contact to ground.

The second circuit is that when the same #2 contact closes power flows through contact #1 to the positive side of the Automatic bilge pump MOTOR to ground. (NOTE: if the switch contact has an internal problem power could flow through the light circuit but not to the wire connected externally to point #1. To check this, see if you have 12 volts from #1 to any ground except point 3# at the switch. You can do this with a test light or a meter.)

This would be the positive 12 volt output measured from contact #1 to any ground point. when the switch is in the ON position. That is the 12 volts that would manually override the bilge pump float switch.

The THIRD circuit would be a Positive source through a fuse or breaker from the battery ( may be tapped into the wire that feeds point #2 from the rear of the boat to the dashboard) to the 12 volt input side of the float switch. The output of the float switch feeds the positive side of the bilge pump, through the pump motor to ground. This in effect is an automatic switch in parallel to the manual one when the float rises and closes the internal float switch.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

You are really reaching here Fishn. Terminal #1 on that switch is not internal. It is an external terminal so the light can be grounded. Terminal #2 (also external) will never connect direct to #3 (also external) since it is hardwired to the bulb inside the switch. That diagram for simplicity shows the relationship between internal and external connections without the need for internal terminations that only add unnecessary detail. The only ON-OFF connection is between terminals #1 and 2. For those following this discussion, inside the switch would be another set of contacts that are made or opened with the switch is toggled. While your scenario is certainly possible it is highly improbable. If this were a cross the bulb would flash intermittently and one would likely hear the pump hum briefly. If the pump was not stalled and since the light is on all the time, the pump would run normally. So in your scenario there needs to be two problems. I contend there is only one. For purposes of discussion in marine electrical systems, the term short generally means short to ground, not a cross between non-grounded circuits. Shorts to ground will blow fuses with one exception -- where the wire gauge has less Current carrying capacity than the fuse used to protect the circuit in which case the wire becomes the fuse and all the smoke escapes. Crosses can and usually do cause some weird electrical system behavior without blowing fuses but this is probably not one of those situations because there is only one issue. The pump doesn't work. Which is why nothing will be resolved unless Chief does some simple troubleshooting or has someone help him. He either has 12 volts and ground at the pump or he doesn't. If those two conditions are true replace the pump.

 

[vegasphotoman]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

I have a dumb question, wouldnt an AUTOMATIC bilge only operate when the bilge SENSES water? therefore it wont work unless wet? mebbe you need to put some water in the bilge for it to be tested....for it to work and pump etc

or is there an "override" (3rd wire) going to auto bilge pumps? which I doubt
===========Heres the simplest way I can explain how to test this---======and this is a one handed operation so you can easily do this====

get a cheap $1 test light at the dollar store / autozone $3 etc
TEST FOR POWER
turn on bilge - light is on at helm, locate the 2 wires going to the bilge pump in your engine compartment...ok after you locate the 2 wires....
attach alligator clip to negative battery terminal, using pointy end of test light puncture each wire till you hit the copper inside and see if test light lights up

if it lilghts on one of the wires, thats the POPWER to bilge...ok that is good...so test the other wire by attaching the test light to positive battery and poking into it, if it lights..the "ground" or return is OK and the bilge pump is BAD

if neither wires make the test light light up.......then you have a break in your wiring / bad connection somewhere between where your at and the switch at the helm,(a short would pop the fuse) or the switch is bad, go to the switch and test there.....

SWITCH DIAGNOSIS
connect your test light to a known ground or run a wire from your battery ground to your test light so you can reach to the switch area, one should light it up at the switch (power) all the time, one never (ground) and one wire when you switch it on.(power to bilge)

A voltmeter is avail at HF for $3 they are even better for checking electrical circuits

extra info on how to = TESTING GROUND WIRES
You can test to make sure ground wires are connected and or working by putting the test light alligator clip on the positive and puncturing a wire with the pointy end...if it lights ...it is grounding.

all this being said....
Bilge pumps go out all the time....they dont last forever and are affordable...good chance is its worn out/dead.

Parts such as auto bilge pumps are available at the iboats store for great prices or you can buy locally etc

 

[boat1010]

Re: Automatic Bilge pump failure?

Like Silvertip has said. If you are unable to get down to the bilge pump you might have to take it in and have it looked at. It is either 1. The motor is gone. 2. The wiring is bad, or the switch 3. The hoses or the pump end of the pump is plugged or broken.