Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

[keverdmann]

I had this in another post but I am moving it because its a different issue.

I have two batteries, they are hooked up to a battery switch. (1, 2, both, off)

If on batt 1 or 2, I can NOT start the engine from the KEY switch (It will turn over just not start). But I CAN start it if I use a screw driver to jump the connection on the solenoid at the engine (as long as I leave the key in the on position).

(I have replaced the key switch and tried leaving the ground off)

Now, Here is the twisted part. If I have the switch on Both. It will start from the key....

These results are consistent and can be produced at an time.

Any clue anyone?

 

[daselbee]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

Best bet is old batteries.
When switch is on "both" you have enough current supply to turn the engine over fast enough to start. The engine needs to turn 300 rpms on the starter motor before it will start.
On the "1" or "2" setting, the single battery cannot supply enough current to turn it fast enough.

Next possibility, defective battery cables, or corroded cable connections.

 

[keverdmann]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

I will check those things and get back to you.
Thanks.

 

[keverdmann]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

Ok Scratch the one batt thing.

It won't start from key switch unless its warmed up. once warm I can start with key.

I am thinking temp senders?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

What on earth would make you think temp senders. They have absolutely nothing to do with starting. They operate the overheat warning horn. Have the batteries load tested at your local auto store. An at home test can be done by attaching a voltmeter to the COM terminal on the switch, set it to BAT 1 and have someone try to start the engine. If voltage drops below 10.5 or 11 you have a discharged or dying battery. Repeat the test for BAT 2. While this is not conclusive, it points to a battery issue or bad cable connections, or corrosion where the battery cables enter the terminals on the end of the cables. Do the cheap stuff first.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

I second the batteries... or maybe the solenoid.

The motors are warmed up and the batteries have been getting a charge from the running motor. The motor is eager to start as it's warmed up, the batteries are fully charged and up to voltage. You turn the key and it fires.
- I'd at least have the batteries tested.

The only niggling unsolved detail is:
Why would the engine start cold with the key on, a single battery selected and jumping the solenoid at the motor and not start with the key? Jumping the solenoid eliminates it the starter circuit to the key and the solenoid.

A friends Ski Natique inboard would hardly crank with the key and started normally by jumping the solenoid. Replacing the solenoid fixed it.

You say on one battery it will turn over but not start. Is it cranking at it's normal speed or sluggishly?

 

[keverdmann]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

Speed is normal. second batt did not increas cranking speed.

But that was yesteday. Today it would not start at the key at all, unless it was warmed up.

I had boats in the past and knew that there are allways issues. But so far I am truly sorry I purchased this one. I am sure I will feel much better once i figure this out.

 

[oldrudedude]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

I second the solenoid camp, also connections and cables have to be checked.

One other thing: I recall seeing a post by Joe Reeves a while back where he was addressing a similar issue. His suggestion was to place a diode between the powerpack and the starter to ensure the starter does not draw extra current from the powerpack.

 

[oldrudedude]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

this may not apply to your situation but...........

The following may be of interest to you. Hopefully you have some mechanical expertise...... and if not, just go slow with your efforts.

(Voltage Drop To Battery Capacitance Discharge)
( Pulsepack When Electric Starter Is Engaged)
(J. Reeves)

On the older Battery Capacitance Discharge ignition systems (1968-1972), the electric starter reaches a point, even with a top notch battery, whereas the starter will draw excess voltage/current/whatever which results in a voltage drop to the pulsepack. The cure is to purchase a diode which is capable of handling 12 volts and installing it between the starter terminal of the starter solenoid (NOT the battery cable terminal) and the wiring terminal that supplies voltage to the pulsepack.

The diode must be installed so that the current flows from the starter terminal of the solenoid to the pulsepack... NOT vice versa. When that diode is installed in this manner, when the key is turned to the start position, the voltage that is applied to the starter is also applied directly to the pulsepack via the diode effectively eliminating the voltage drop and energerizing the pulsepack with the required voltage needed for its proper operation.

http://stores.ebay.com/Evinrude-John...tc?refid=store
********************
(Battery Capacitance Dischage Powerpack Test)
Various OMC Engines - 1968 to 1972)
(J. Reeves)

Purchase a small 12v bulb at your local automotive parts store (the 12v bulb is to look like a flashlight bulb, not a headlight bulb). Solder two wires to that bulb, one to the side of the bulb (ground), and the other to the positive point. You might use a bulb of a somewhat lower voltage to obtain a brighter glow... just a suggestion.

Remove the spark plugs. With the key in the on position, make sure that you have 12v going to the pack at the terminal block (purple wire). Now, connect the ground wire from the bulb to any powerhead ground. Connect the wire from the positive point of that bulb to the powerpack wire that is connected to the coil wire on the terminal board (blue wire).

Crank the engine and observe that bulb closely (CLOSELY!). If that bulb glows even the slightest bit, the powerpack is okay. It may be a very dim glow... just so it glows! If it doesn't glow, the pack has failed.

Keep in mind, that type powerpack (Battery Capacitance Discharge) demands a top notch battery of at least 70 amp hours. Any less will, in time, cause powerpack failure.

 

[daselbee]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

Starting when cold, one would be pressing the key in to activate the primer solenoid. IF...MAYBE....your key switch was bad, and the act of pressing it in ALSO connected the kill black/yellow to ground, you would be killing the ignition while trying to start it. Unknowingly, by the switch defect.

That would explain why you can start it by jumping at the solenoid, also explain why it starts when warm. You don't press the key in when starting warm....

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

The testing tips are for Battery CD ignitons so ignore them. I would check all connections on batterys and battery switch as I have seen the backs melted on them causing weird problems. As posted engine must turn at least 400 rpm for power coil to generate 12-24 volts to pack, also pack gets a 12 v signal from yellow/red on solenoid so you may be having ignition problem. If it was at my shop I would check the following in this order:
A) batterys & connections & bypass harness
B) starter amp draw & voltage drop test
C) stator outputs

 

[keverdmann]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

I have tried so many of these things and a few i have not. But i have given up and brought the boat over to freeport to have it fixed...
So when I get it back I will post what the resolution is. Got knows I will pay good money for it. I might as well share it with all of you.

Kevin.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

Too bad you hatd to resort to paying someone... But I understand. We'll be waiting for the resolution.

Thank You!

 

[keverdmann]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

Ok here is the result.

They call me and tell me it?s the harness. They say it?s a bad connection in the cable. Specifically an adapter that was used when the harness was replaced.

So I have them replace the entire harness helm to motor for 350. Then they call me the next day and tell me they also found a bad stator and that they already replaced it with a used unit from another engine. The new price 500.

So, in my opinion, they replaced the harness. Tried to start the engine and found that they still had the same issue... After that they pulled off the bonnet and found the burnt stator. So. He just replaced it with a used unit (without asking if i would like to purchase a new one). Then told me that the bad stator burnt out the old cable. (that I did not see or get back by the way.)

It does not take a genius, but what the heck. I have a new cable, and... If the stator blows out. I have some wiggle room to bargain on a new one.

Call me a sap, but I did not feel like fighting it out and was just happy to have my boat back

P.S The ride from Freeport to Wantagh was ruff in that bad wind this afternoon.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

Do you mean stator?? I have never heard of a spader, and if it was stator it should only damage rectifier, not harness or wiring....

 

[keverdmann]

Re: Johnson 225 ocean runner 1996 won't start on 1 batt

yes I did mean stator my bad.

and I agree there was nothing wrong with my harness...