Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

[ErieRon]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

Can you post the model/serial number of your carb. I think it's a Rochester 2G or 2GC. Let me know and I'll see if I can help. The numbers are on a tag under one of the hold down screws, and stamped on the face of the upper...usually.

 

[system-f]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

I tried it all with my carb (same as yours) I had to end up drilling a hole and poking it out then seal with JB weld. I also have a post about this on the board...

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=351361

I have over 5 hours on the JB welded carb and no leaks. Please note that I used the smallest bit possible to drill the hole and tapped it so the JB weld can grab into the hole. Also, in my carb someone had installed the check balls for the accel pump backwards. The big ball was in the small hole and the small ball in the big hole.

 

[fabrimacator21]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

Can you post the model/serial number of your carb. I think it's a Rochester 2G or 2GC. Let me know and I'll see if I can help. The numbers are on a tag under one of the hold down screws, and stamped on the face of the upper...usually.

I'm fairly sure it's a 2G.....

Heres the numbers I got off it... napa could only use this (17059051) one but I'm sure the other numbers have some relevance.

101 8 1

50257

 

[fabrimacator21]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

I tried it all with my carb (same as yours) I had to end up drilling a hole and poking it out then seal with JB weld. I also have a post about this on the board...

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=351361

I have over 5 hours on the JB welded carb and no leaks. Please note that I used the smallest bit possible to drill the hole and tapped it so the JB weld can grab into the hole. Also, in my carb someone had installed the check balls for the accel pump backwards. The big ball was in the small hole and the small ball in the big hole.

You know,,, I'm starting to wonder this myself.... It's obvious someone had been in it recently... looks like it had an overhaul kit installed.

Just to clarify, the chrome ball goes in the hole with the copper spring and "T" retainer and the aluminum ball goes in the accelerator pump resevoir right?(where my and your check ball was stuck)

I noticed that on the blown up drawing of my carb (that came with the carb overhaul kit) shows a "c" retainer that looks like it keeps the throttle return spring off the ball which would help with it getting stuck. I'm thinking about rednecking a regular washer (notching it and grinding it to fit the resevior) to keep the spring from putting pressure on the ball. Basically it's just a washer with a notch cut in it (so the throttle return spring doesn't sit on that check ball) which keeps the spring from touching the ball.

Only thing is, I didn't find that "c" retainer in my carb and on the drawing it says some models. Don't know if mine is one of them or not. I'll scan the exploded view of it... give me a 1/2 hour.

Is the throttle return spring suppossed to be touching that check ball? It didn't seem right to me.

 

[fabrimacator21]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

Okay the retainer "c" clip is circled in red... seems like I need one to keep the ball from getting stuck (assuming I have the right check ball in there)

Thing is though.... the manual for my boat doesn't show a retainer "c" clip as you can see below. It shows the spring sitting flat and the ball is below the spring (circled in red)... when I put my carb back together that was not the case. The pump inlet ball (in the drawing below) sticks up about 1/32"-1/16" and the spring doesn't sit flat because of it. Doesn't seem right to me.

 

[ErieRon]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

I'm fairly sure it's a 2G.....

Heres the numbers I got off it... napa could only use this (17059051) one but I'm sure the other numbers have some relevance.

101 8 1

50257

2G is a hand choke version, 2GC is an automatic choke/vacuum piston and stat cover type, and 2GV is an automatic choke/vacuum break type. Go here for pics to ID properly; http://www.surplussales.com/Automobile/Carburetors/pdf/ato-77-770a.pdf

Yours should be a 2GC.

From what I can decipher from the ID codes, The 17059051 is a Rochester 2bbl, 1979, single jet CA high altitude version, Chevy. The 101 81 is a Julian date code (101st day of the year, 1981)

The little "c" clip you are talking about comes in the "later model" rebuild kit. They changed plunger styles somewhere along the way. I don't think yours needs the "c" clip, but you should be able to tell by the plunger style in these kite. Look here at the two kits; http://www.surplussales.com/Automobile/Carburetors/rochester.html+

Here's another link for parts; http://www.carburetor.ca/carbs/kits/CK807.htm

You may want to call these guys to see if they have the idle screws. They may also be able to answer your questions about the other things.

 

[dan t.]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

something is not right here, the ball should sit in a hole well below the surface the spring seats on.a possible solution would be to find a drill just larger than the ball, drill the lole slightly deeper, this would also form a new seat for the ball

 

[dan t.]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

I meant hole not lole

 

[jtybt]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

It's been a while since my last rebuild of a q-jet and it's been decades since my last rebuild of a 2 barrel, soooo...

My recollection, that clip is part of the accelerator pump assembly at the end of the pump rod and has nothing to do with the check ball.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

that clip is part of the accelerator pump assembly at the end of the pump rod and has nothing to do with the check ball.

^ yup, nothing to do with the check ball

 

[superbenk]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

I think the clip you're pointing at is part of the plunger. However, my 2GC has a tiny spring clip that slides into the plunger hold above the check ball to retain the ball. I had to take that spring out to replace the ball & then replace it. It is hair-thin and does nothing to keep the plunger off the ball (the plunger doesn't go down that far as there's a narrower channel below the plunger channel that's about 1/8" deep where the check ball hole & ball is). You may be having a hard time removing/replacing that ball properly because that spring clip is still in there.

Once you get it out (you can do so with a tiny hook - ie, a miniature screwdriver with the tip bent slightly) and replace the ball, it's kind of a tricky process getting it back in. I used a long pair of needle-nose to hold the open ends of the clip compressed together and a tiny long screw-driver to help guide it into the hole. Once in the hole, let go of the needle-nose and hopefully it expands straight in the proper position. You can then guide it down to the bottom with a tiny screwdriver by pushing it down the sides.

Here's some pics from my recent 2GC rebuild, though unfortunately I don't have any of the process I described above: http://picasaweb.google.com/superbenk/CarbRebuild

 

[fabrimacator21]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

something is not right here, the ball should sit in a hole well below the surface the spring seats on.a possible solution would be to find a drill just larger than the ball, drill the lole slightly deeper, this would also form a new seat for the ball

Hmm.... maybe just a 1/32" bigger? Has anyone done this? I really don't want to mess this carb body up.

 

[ErieRon]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

Just my opinion, but it sounds like it's already messed up, or you have the wrong ball. I just did mine in March and didn't have any problems at all (it's a 1984). If the ball is sticking in the seat, the seat has been compromised, or the ball is the wrong size. There really aren't any other possibilities. I would never even consider trying to "re-machine" that seat with a drill by hand...but that's just me.

The little clip (Ref No. 48) looks like a retainer that snaps into the seat to hold the ball in. You should be able to tell if your carb utilizes it because there would be an undercut relief in the diameter where it snaps in...like a snap ring.

Have you double checked that you bought the right kit? The one I bought was pretty direct as far as what parts are used and not used, and the instructions were pretty clear. That carb and the rebuild kits have subtle changes depending on the application. Did you use your carb's S.N. when ordering? Between the Merc. service manual and the instructions in the kit, you should be able to determine all of the nuances.

Is it possible for you to post a picture that shows the bottom of that well a little more clearly ?

Again, just trying to help......................it shouldn't be this hard

 

[fabrimacator21]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

I'm thinking the same thing.... hand drilling a new seat can't be wise.

The kit is right.... yes I used the S.N.

I'm about to say fock it and buy a new carb... this is rediculous. I still have to try and hunt down a idle screw for it.... if I can't find one then I'll probably just buy a new 4bbl carb and manifold. I'll try to get a clearer pic tomorrow of the seat.

Where can I get a cheap reman marine 4bbl carb?

 

[ErieRon]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

Probably a good call. For me, it's all about confidence when I'm on the water (Lake Erie).

I would start here at iboats, and then just Google "Rochester Marine Carburetors" and you'll find tons of places to buy them. You may want to check Ebay as well.

If you need help with the conversion (2bbl to 4bbl) you should probably start a new thread. I know there are guys on here that have done that and can provide some info.

Good luck.

 

[fabrimacator21]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

Well after alot of frustration.... I'm convinced that the ball that got stuck was the wrong check ball....

I just got the new ball unstuck and tried a few different ones that came with the carb overhaul kit and 2 of them fit like the drawing suggests...

I'm wondering which ball should go in there though. One is aluminum and one is chrome. Both seem to be the same size. Which one should go in there? Aluminum or chrome?

 

[dan t.]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

aluminum

 

[fabrimacator21]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

aluminum

Right on...... Looks like I got something to do tonight....

Thanks to everyone for the help.

I'm gonna put it back together tonight then mount it on the motor tomorrow. I'll let you guys know how she runs (crosses fingers).

 

[cr2k]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

For parts I would check with a carb or boat shop for old or spare parts. They usually have carbs that are trashed for other reasons around for parts.
Heating will not work because the aluminum ball will expand faster then the carb body.

The retainer goes over the ball but is not totally necessary as the pump return spring should do the same job.

You would think the stainless ball (smaller) would go in the pump cavity so it would not corrode being where it can sit in water from bad fuel, but NO.

I would try the drill out from the bottom (need very small bit) and JB weld the drill hole. Hey it's not usable as it is anyway.

 

[fabrimacator21]

Re: Carb guru's.... need some help with a stuck check ball (pics)

For parts I would check with a carb or boat shop for old or spare parts. They usually have carbs that are trashed for other reasons around for parts.
Heating will not work because the aluminum ball will expand faster then the carb body.

The retainer goes over the ball but is not totally necessary as the pump return spring should do the same job.

You would think the stainless ball (smaller) would go in the pump cavity so it would not corrode being where it can sit in water from bad fuel, but NO.

I would try the drill out from the bottom (need very small bit) and JB weld the drill hole. Hey it's not usable as it is anyway.

I appreciate the input but.... I got the ball out.... check the last few posts I made.

My best guess is someone put the wrong check ball in there.... it's way too big for the seat. I put a different smaller check ball (came with the carb overhaul kit) in there and it seems to fit perfect.

Still haven't started her up yet. Hopefully tomorrow.