Can the floor rot from the top down???

[elark7]

I decided to pull the floor and found it to be quite unusual. The stringers and foam are fine but the wood floor is rotted, in spots. By the console (by far the worst area) where the throughhull runs to the livewell, where the seats were mounted with very large bolts and where some other item (unknown) was screwed to the floor. There are lots of drilled holes in the floor ?, and one that appears to be from the factory? The previous owner attempted to fix these areas by placing two pieces of 1/2" plywood over the entire floor and glassing it down, but did not fix the leak to the livewell as the new wood was going bad only there. I never noticed the leak as I never went under the console for anything and only used the live well for live bait for my kids.

So could this be what caused the soft spot in the floor? Is it possible for the floor to go bad while the stringers are still good? I poked them with a screwdriver, drilled the foam and both appear ok. The foam is dry. Also the previous owner put some foam in to fill where the wood was gone before putting new wood down. Should I remove the foam or cut it down to the lvel of the factory foam prior to replacing the floor? I am glad I decided to pull it as it seems better then I feared, also the transom is solid, dry and not delaminating. The floor under the rear deck is also very solid (no floor under the front deck). Pics show what I found by the console, between the stringers on the outside of the boat is all foam, nothing between the middle stringers (so water over the bow can run to the back?). Stringers appear to be 1X3 and the original floor seems to 1/4" thick. Thanks for any insights.

Elark7

 

[ghamby]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

Sure it can. Cheap plywood, bad finish job, poor maintenance, and bad storage
are just a few causes. You have to remove rot until you hit solid wood and go
from there.
gh

 

[imperial200]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

i think so to as this seems to be the case with my boat. . .it seems most people find it hard to swallow but I think it happens just rare cases. . .my boat appeared to not be covered properly. . .lots of holes in the floor and it appears someone did a crappy repiar job before i got here. . .all my rot was around the gas tank inspection cover gl on your project

 

[elark7]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

Thanks guys. So far the only wet areas have been where the holes in the floor are, where the throughhull was leaking, and where the white foam was put in in the factory looking hole (foam was like a sponge). Away from these areas there is dry wood. It is good but may be dry rotted so I am removing the dry wood as well. It is also odd the it appears that the factory floor was glassed only on the outer edges, about a 4 inch under lap. The foam is all dry but I misspoke earlier. It appears that the foam was placed in varying amounts throughout the boat with 1 foot spaces here and there. There is about 3 inches under the floor in the middle but only about 1/2" on the outer edges, where the wood is dry. 5 stringers that are really not much and solid front to back. Also whoever did the replacement did a fairly decent job as it has been a pain to remove, glass is thicker then factory and the gap around the edges was filled with resin, 1 inch thick by 1/4 inch wide, then ground and sanded smooth.

On a different note how many of you have found things under the original floor? I have found the following:
-Cigerette butt
-Gum wrapper
-Spinner, blade still good
-coffee cup lid
-dry rotted jelly worms

 

[elark7]

More pics of floor removal

More pics of floor removal

So I have been photo-documenting this as it is the first floor replacement for me and I want to have pics so next time I do a more efficient job. In these you see the small thin stringers, foam that was added for no known reason under the original floor (no holes at these spots in replacement floor). And also some of the dry original floor and the second floor on top.

 

[elark7]

Re: More pics of floor removal

Re: More pics of floor removal

here is the photo showing the original floor and the replacement on top.

 

[elark7]

Re: More pics of floor removal

Re: More pics of floor removal

So I was up till 3 trying to find more info on replacing and glassing floors and have some questions without answers found. Not to offend anyone but why is it that a lot of higher posters respond with Do a search on blah blah that question has been answered already, and never answer the question? I found a lot of posts with similar questions that were never answered except in this manner.

Anyways, can you replace just part of a stringer? I started to pull the floor again this morning and found that there was at one point a cross piece that was not covered very well with fiberglass and was rotted on the bottom where the major soft spot was. Pulled all of it and found the stringer underneath was not fiberglassed where they met and was rotted. Poked with a flattip and found that only a piece about 4 inches long was bad, less if I hadn' been so agressive with the screwdriver. I am guessing that a 2X4 was the cross piece and a 1X3X4 will fill the stringer area. I plan to reglass everything, way better then the original and add foam in the gaps for extra rigidty. Found a lighter under the floor this morning. Did guys in the 80's building boats think noone would ever look under the floor? More questions as I go. Thanks again for the help, this sight rules for boat information.

E

 

[thrillhouse700]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

If possible post a pic of the stringer. Have you searched for "4 inch section of stringer is rotted" its on here somewhere....

GOTCHA!!! Def post a pic of the rotted part, you can replace part of a stringer but you have to make sure that the part before and after it is dry because resin wont adhere to wet wood. You might also have to add a lap joint for strength.

 

[elark7]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

Thrillhouse700, good one. I have a pic on the camera outside on the boat. Came in for a water break and have spent the last 1 3/4 hours searching and reading and drooling over finished boats (at this rate my wife says it will be next year before I can sell the boat). I wish I wasn't laid off and had more money to put in this boat and pass it down to my son, as it is really really nice. The wood on the side away from the leaking throughhull is solid, smoking when I cut it. I hate to remove it but I want the floor to be one solid piece not a patch and splice. Foam is dry except right next to the hull by the leak, but I am removing all of it as well.

Question. Is it normal to find the original floor not to the edge of the walls? I tried cutting closer and it is solid fiberglass and resin (I am guessing this is due to the fact that there is no room for 1/2 plywood next to the wall due to the shape of the hull underneath). I found a little debbie snack wrapper by the rear casting deck, a silver wrapper mixed in with the foam and some pumpkin seeds. The boys that built this boat must have had fun putting in all of the extras. More pics to come.

E

 

[elark7]

Glassing stringers, gap bow to stern

Glassing stringers, gap bow to stern

Two more questions before returning to the grind, LOL. Is it normal to glass the stringers to the poured in foam? Look at the pic with my recip saw and you can see that the stringers are all glassed to the foam at intervals. Also, shoot oldtimers disease forgot the other question. Got it. Should there be a gap in the middle of the boat to allow water to pass through to the rear and the bilge pump. Currently there is none and the foam is dry in the middle but I am thinking of leaving a gap for drainage.

E

 

[chrishayes]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

I am with ya! Found all sorts of things in mine...flip flops, lighters chewed gum, and a boys dress shoe I have told folks to search as well because really the questions that are about repairing boats have been answered. Promise! Just not the way YOU need them to be explained. If you look at robbankstons resto of his chapparal he spliced his stringers using a simple 45 degree cut and overlap. Sometimes though if you have the access it is just easier to replace it I would think.

Also on your water drainage question, yes, I would want a way for water to drain from as far forward to the bilge as possible. In fact I went to great lengths to endure water would have a way to drain from every place in my substructure. Check out my thread somewhere near page 9 and you can see the drainage I added. You might also look through pics of work so far thread, John used a piece of pvc cut in two for his drainage. GL And someday if you stay on here long enough you will answer some question with "try the search fuction" as well

 

[elark7]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

Lunch break.
Chrishayes- I hope to be here that long, god willing. I guess part of the problem is how I search, wanting/hoping to find my exact question, only happened once. Then having to seach through hundreds/thousands of posts trying to find anything close. I could spend all day looking at the progresses of others and really enjoy the finished boat posts. Thanks for the tips on who to look at. I have seen your responses on many of the posts I have already read (love the beating dead horse avatar) and am glad you took the time to help me. Here are more pics, including the stringer that is soft by the leak. Thanks again all.

E

 

[elark7]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

More pics. Bloody finger above is reason to never take gloves off no matter how hard it is to get hand in tight spot to pull fiberglass. Glass went under nail to about where the black dot is. Man does it burn like a bee sting. Glass does not want to let go of wood by front deck, and wood does not want to let go of stringers.

E

 

[elark7]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

More questions, and pics. First how do I remove foam from under the rear casting deck without removing the deck. I am thinking laying on my stomach and using the electric carving knife to fillet it. I want to have a clear drain path to the rear and the foam is stopping this (see pic). The front bow area is set up to drain to the outside of the boat right into the foam that was there (note past tense), strange!? I am planning to change this so it drains to the middle. Answering my own question while thinking outloud- yes it can be done but do it right and measure twice so you don't cut through the hull. I will have to cut the stringers on both sides and angle them to catch the water where it passes under the front floor. Resin the wood good then glass it in to the hull. Other then replacing some parts of the stringers, where the cross pieces were (another question to come about this) it appears that I only have to replace the whole stringer on the left side closest to the wall. It is dryrotted of all things even though the floor was best in this area, odd? Ok next question, love picking the brains of those more knowledgeable then I, Why are the stringers not glassed where the cross pieces set?, and Why did they not completly glass these pieces in. They are all gone. I know they had to be there as I found nails and stainless screws in the original floor, between layers of glass and stuck in the stringers. I thought the boat builers did not use nails or screws to hold their floors as this would lead to rot, which it did since there is no wood left from the cross pieces. I am already drawing up the supports to cover the middle allowing foam on top while water passes underneath. Enough for now here are some pics. Back to measuring and cutting replacement pieces. Thanks again.

 

[elark7]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

More pics. Nail in the stringer from the cross piece. Screw between layers of glass. Where I cut the stringer to redirect the flow of water that comes over the bow, and some wierd item mixed into the foam. Dinner is calling so cheers to all.

E

 

[sschefer]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

Just to clarify, often you are reffered to previous posts because the poster wrote extensively about your specific problem and doesn't have the time to re-write it again.

Your post is not one of these but I can't tell you how many times I've looked at posts that say...."My engine doesn't run what's wrong" then the next posts recommends they get a manual and they follow with.. If I had a manual why would I be asking here.... Doohhhh.. A few of those and you tend to start refering people to the gawd awful search engine here.

Hey, you have a cool boat and that problem you have with the floor is pretty common. You have to remember that most folks don't find problems with their boats until a week before they've promised the wife and kids a day at the lake. Then it's a scramble to fix things up and the patch usually is good enough to get by. Boats are not the priority in these peoples lives so good enough becomes perfect. There's no such thing as a bad boat repair if it gets you on the water safely.

We on the other hand are a rare bread that loves to see things done to perfection. Welcome to a very elite group of folks.

 

[elark7]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

So I have been reading and serching again and have a question about the drain I want down the middle. I was thinking of keeping it easy, box shaped and close to the hull. Just big enough to keep new foam out of the drain. Now I am thinking, not good according to my wife, about matching the middle stringer. Two new stringers, one down each side of the main one. Three to four inches to the side and high enough for the floor to rest on. Thus eliminating the need to top the pieces. I have read installing stringer threads and believe I have everything to do what needs to be done and done right. Plan to completely incase them and glass them to the hull to waterproof it. Thoughts? Also any ideas on removing foam from under the rear deck?

E

 

[elark7]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

So here is what I got done today. . Space represents nothing. I stepped off the trailer one too many times yesterday and my knee decided it had had enough. There was some popping, cracking sounds and down I went. Wish someone had been videoing so I could see exactly what went wrong. Anyways I limped around last night then got up this morning to a stiff and swollen leg, not just my knee but my theigh and calf as well. So ice, elevation and compression were the days work. This may add an additional 12 weeks to the floor, and selling of the boat.

After my 12 year old came home I took him away from the PS2 to learn about fiberglass and floor replacement. I put him to work removing the foam under the rear deck and measuring of the stringers and inside area for glass and resin calculations. Told him "see your math teacher was right you will be using this your whole life". Let him do the calculations, which I will check later.

While watching I noticed that the floor under the deck, besides being nailed to the stringers, was only 1/4 inch. Is this normal? Was the builder cutting costs by placing thinner wood to the rear? I removed a lot of it and had planned to carry the 1/2 inch under the deck. Should I still do this or use a 45 degree cut to join the 1/2 to a piece of 1/4 inch tucked under the deck. The wood under the rear deck is solid but I have removed about half of it (not an easy chore in the dark last night, knee not wanting to work right and the rear deck and cap still on the boat).

While sitting around I drew up some ideas for the drain and actually like the new idea. Cutting pieces about the shape of minny transom pieces , notched out for the drain and then covered with a 1X6 the length of the hull. I will attempt to draw this on the computer and post it. Doing this will give me a level area in the middle to lay the foam on. Tied in to the stringers will this add some more structural rigidity to the skeleton of the boat? More pics below. If you look at middle stringer you can get an idea of where I am thinking of attaching the pieces to enclose the drain.

E

 

[elark7]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

More pics. I tried to draw what I want the drain setup to look like on the one pic. On the left of the stringer the white lines represent where the 1X6 will be laying on top of the cross pieces to keep the foam out of any water that needs to drain from front to rear. Black area represents holes on the pieces and is where the water will drain through. Other pics show where the water that came over the bow was draining originally from under the deck and into the foam. It was boxed in here with no way to drain to the bilge. Poor design. Hope to be up and working on the floor next week.

 

[elark7]

Re: Can the floor rot from the top down???

So I went out to clean up some of the mess I created, for trash day, and before you know it I am up in the boat working on the stringers and drain. I know I shouldn't have done it, my whole leg hurts, but after 4 days I could not stand it any longer. I am glad I did as I decided to replace all of the side stringers. The side ones appeared to be good but it was the fiberglass on them that made them seem strong, I walked on them without a problem. I cut the tops of and found that the two away from the leak were dry rotted, eaten by ants?, while the two by the leak were solid but totally wet. Removed them all, cut the new ones and put them in. See pics.

Question: Is it ok to leave the original fiberglass from the stringers there to hold the new ones? I plan to coat the new stringers prior to putting them in, them glue them down and fiberglass them completely in, unlike the factory that left way too much exposed. I want to leave the original due to the fact that it is very thick. Thanks again.

Elark