1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

[BAproject]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

Hey guys,

The bolts for the starter come off the backside of the engine. I could get a wrench in there with an extension and most likely yank the starter with a little patience.
The bigger problem is that motor has been sitting for 5 years and needs a major overhaul. This cannot be done from inside the boat. The previous owner did not winterize it and it was used more often in salt water than anything else(I am in the northeast).
Pulled off the water pump and there's rust....not a good sign!
I am in the process of getting the crank pully assembly (which was taken off the motor before I purchased it) so I can see if it will even turn. I am not hopeful, but it gives me a good excuse to pull the motor, pop the heads (which can be done b4 pulling), and see what kind of shape the cylinders and rings are in. Even if it spins I would hazzard a guess that compression in the cylinders will not be optimized if even present.
Even better with the amount of corrosion at most of the hose connections it would be wise to flush the entire block to make sure that the cooling channels are not clogged or even too badly corroded to salvage (this of course would be bad!)
Will have to check for a cracked block as well, but the good news is the oil in the pan is good, clean, no water, smells like clean oil and is not even close to being broken down.
Any advise at this point from someone who has come across a similar situation would be welcomed. I might be better off getting a crate engine and dropping it in?

-BAproject

 

[John_S]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

Given the exhaust manifolds are in the same condition as engine, consider upgrading to a 350 vs rebuild the V6. That non-vortec V6 would have been the minmum size engine for that 20'er. Performance would be marginal with a 4-6 people and gear.

 

[BAproject]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

Hi John,

Thanks for the idea. Believe it or not the exhaust manifolds are in great condition, in fact probably the best condition of all external parts. When I was talking about hoses I was referring to the intake and water pump areas but not the exhaust.
I'd love to upgrade but might not be in the cards for the next couple of years.
The engine is the 4.3L not the 3.0L. I am toying with changing over with the 4 barrel carb kit when rebuilding (currently has 2 barrell set-up).....I have a local guy that has one in good condition. If it runs (ha...big if) with that kit I should be able to push close to 200HP out of that engine which isn't too bad for a 20' bayliner.
This is my first boat so I would much rather have a great learning experience so I can understand all facets when getting my next boat .
And if all fails, the outdrive and trailer are in great shape and I could double the money I paid for the entire set-up.
What can I say, I'm cheap and I'm gonna try to do as much as possible for as little as possible


-BAproject

 

[Thad]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

You sound mechanically inclined, so any advise would most likely be redundant, but here goes.

Not being winterized is BAD. At the very least you could have popped freeze plugs or a crack in the outside of the block at a water port. Worst case, you'll need a new block.
First, I would put the engine on the stand and make sure (if the barn is not heated) that I had my propane heater in good working order for this winter. Set up in a side room or hang tarps to create a work room (again, if one is not lready set up) and then:

I would do a complete tear down of the engine. If no cracks, your looking good. If cracked, look for a new block. At this point, I would take the block to the shop and have it cleaned. Take the heads and intake and exhaust manifolds also and have them checked and cleaned as well. Replace all hoses, as I stated in an earlier post. I would most likely buy a new water pump and not even mess with the old one.
I would order new rings and bearings, depending on the condition of the pistons and rods, might order a whole new kit or reuse the old ones. Judgement call on that one.
I would tear down th outdrive as well. Replace the bellows and water intake hose. Replace the impellor. Check the shaft and u-joints with a close eye. I would most likely replace the gimbal bearing and if there is rust ANYWHERE on the shaft, clean it and replace the u-joints as well. Replace all the seals and O-rings. Give it a good blasting and paint job. (nobody likes any ugly outdrive, takes away from that nice clean boat)
Clean any and every part that is associated with the exhaust. such as y-pipe, elbows, and replace the rubber sections. This might sound like overkill, but having been in salt and not taken care of, it seems it would save you down the road.

I guess, if you find the block is not cracked and do not wish to do a complete rebuild, flushing (a lot) might help a little.

That is what I would do, but that's just me. Besides, in all reality, if it WERE me, I would probably do more than that.

Best of luck to you and remember to take pics of before, during, and after.
Thad

 

[John_S]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

It wouldn't surprise me if your year boat was offered w/3.0L from Bayliner. IMHO, they did produce a number of under-powered boats. I do know that my 20'er capri was offered in the 4.3L vortec as the minimum. Your performance with heavier loads or pulling skier will be marginal. The extra torque provided by the V8, makes the difference. A lot of work goes into a project boat, and just want to make sure it will meet your final expectations. The down the road conversion would be expensive. It is not going to be any more cost effective than now. Best thing is to cost both options completly, and know exactly where you stand.

If the V8 is out of range of your projects finances, would then suggest consdering what it would take to convert to a vortec V6 w/4brl. It is probably a no-brainer if your current heads are cracked. I don't know the nuances of the V6 conversion, but there are others on this board that do.

PS: Also before putting allot of money into engine would make sure the hull and flooring are in excellent condition. Any soft spots in the floor need to be investigated. There could be significant floor/stringer rot, and Bayliners are "famous" for it. Fiberglassing and flooring work can bring a whole new level to a project boat. View some of floor repairs in the restorations forums.

 

[BAproject]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

Awesome, Thanks Thad!!!
Any advise is welcome and yes I am mechanically inclined but any tips or tricks will most definitely save me time and aggravation
I was thinking about pulling the exhaust mani's, heads and intake out before I lift the engine so I can get a closer look at everything while it's still in the boat. We still have a few nice days left in New England and I enjoy working outside!
I already pulled the pump and it's toast....may be able to recondition it but may be too rusted through, but that's a fairly cheap parts to replace.
I have a ton of pictures I've been taking along the way.
The outdrive is in amazing shape for it's age, spins free and smooth (paint is a 75 out of 100 and that will be last thing I do in the scheme of things, not to mention painting aluminum and getting it to stick well can be a nightmare!
The exhaust bellows are shot, but the outdrive is coming off anyways so no biggie there. I don;t know if it happened when it was still a running boat or after sitting for years....I am hoping for the later because if it happened while running then water would have gotten into the engine.
I will take some more picture over the weekend and post them for all to see....so everyone can comment on my insanity of taking this project on....ha
The barn is not set up yet, and has space heaters, but I'm thinking about bringing the engine into my basement to work over the winter......any guesses on the weight of that puppy? If too heavy I may be cozying up to a space heater in the winter.

-BAproject

 

[Fishermark]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

I was thinking about pulling the exhaust mani's, heads and intake out before I lift the engine so I can get a closer look at everything while it's still in the boat. We still have a few nice days left in New England and I enjoy working outside!

If you find that easier, then by all means go for it. I personally find it easier to do that with the engine on an engine stand. You will be using a hoist or cherry picker of some kind anyway - so the extra weight will not be a factor. I find it easier to remove various components in a more controlled environment than bent over the engine compartment. Especially if you find some of the fasteners rusted and corroded - and it sounds like you will.

I already pulled the pump and it's toast....may be able to recondition it but may be too rusted through, but that's a fairly cheap parts to replace.

Just remember that the automotive version and the marine versions are different. The "cheap" one is the automotive one.

The exhaust bellows are shot, but the outdrive is coming off anyways so no biggie there. I don;t know if it happened when it was still a running boat or after sitting for years....I am hoping for the later because if it happened while running then water would have gotten into the engine

It is the drive bellows you need to worry about - not the exhaust. You could even run it with no exhaust bellows (not recommending that of course) and not worry about water getting in the engine. Many people do away with the bellows and use the exhaust tube which only attaches on one side.


I echo much of what Thad suggested - however I don't think it necessary to simply replace the u joints, etc. Take a look at them and evaluate them first.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

One more thing - i believe you mentioned that it looked like it had not been winterized properly.... Be sure to check very carefully the exhaust manifolds. You said they looked great... but if they suffered freeze damage, they could be cracked internally and you would not know it by simply looking. One tip I have found helpful is, after removing them from the engine, turn them over and carefully fill the water jacket area with acetone. It is very thin and you will be able to see if any leaks into the exhaust or intake areas.

 

[BAproject]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

Good to know about the manifolds, I will be checking that this weekend. Hope they're not cranked cuz man those puppies are solid cast pieces and not cheap to replace, however if cracked they could also be welded to fix with minimal hassle!!!

I did some research on the water pump. In most cases the cheap one is the car pump that doesn't have the correct impeller to handle water or salt water. Those impellers are designed for antifreeze which won't corrode them. There are several rebuilt pumps out there cheaper than new ones and if the housing is in good shape and it has been rebuilt properly then I would be incline to save the money. They are meant for salt water use. All-in-all it's not an expensive part to buy new, $150-$175 at most new.

Thanks again to everyone for all the advise so far....

 

[Fishermark]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

however if cracked they could also be welded to fix with minimal hassle!!!

Welding cast iron is tricky at best - and if they are cracked to cause damage, it will be in an area difficult to access. I hope they are okay, but if not, you will be looking at replacement - not repair.

 

[Thad]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

I echo much of what Thad suggested - however I don't think it necessary to simply replace the u joints, etc. Take a look at them and evaluate them first.

I'm glad I got one right, and not trying to be difficult, I did say somewhat similar to that.:redface:

Check the shaft and u-joints with a close eye. I would most likely replace the gimbal bearing and if there is rust ANYWHERE on the shaft, clean it and replace the u-joints as well. Thad

Only if there was rust, indicating water having got in, would I then replace the u-joints. I just don't like water where it is not supposed to be.

As far as getting the engine into the basement. If you have an external stairwell, you and a couple of buds should be able to carry it down no problem. Strip it to little more than a long block first. Which most likely will have already been done. I would recommend this same approach for getting it out.
If you have a normal stairwell, I think your...(insert here)

 

[Thad]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

Welding cast iron is tricky at best - and if they are cracked to cause damage, it will be in an area difficult to access. I hope they are okay, but if not, you will be looking at replacement - not repair.

Agreed. My buddy is on of the best welder/fabricators I have ever seen, and even HE advises against welding cast. It can be done, but normaly does not last.
Not to mention, like Fisher said, difficult at best to reach. If not impossible.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

Agreed. ...Not to mention, like Fisher said, difficult at best to reach. If not impossible.

Glad I got at least one right.

 

[BAproject]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

in that case I will just use a little cyanoacrelate in the cracks....ha....just kidding, well, I'll no more after this weekend....

I will be posting some pictures soon as well so you can all laugh at me

-BAproject

 

[Thad]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

I will be posting some pictures soon as well so you can all laugh at me

-BAproject

We'll only laugh at you BEHIND your back...otherwise, we are laughing WITH you

 

[BAproject]

Re: 1991 Bayliner Capri Bowrider

Well here's a pic of the engine.....Haven't pulled it yet and might try to do the work without lifting the engines....

Cleaned out the intake and repainted it.....not black though...had to go silver, the engine has no character when it's monochromatic.

Anyone know a good rust inhibitor to flush the engine with and stop any growth that might be happening in there?


More pics to come as soon as my phone finishes e-mailing everything to me....

-BAproject