79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Update...took off head and attached pics...

[jonesg]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - New Water Pump/Impeller - Has prostrate trouble??

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - New Water Pump/Impeller - Has prostrate trouble??

Ok, I got it back on...all bolts and everything hooked up. Put on ear muffs and started the engine. Only get a dribble out of pee hole. Is that all it's going to do with muffs, or do I need to check something else?

For someone with zilch for knowledge about outboards you sure do learn fast.
Good for you, nothing like havin a go.!

even if it fails you learned a ton of info for the next go round ,
that you can do it with expert advise.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not but Prostrate Trouble now???

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not but Prostrate Trouble now???

pee hose may be clogged pull off and blow out.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not but Prostrate Trouble now???

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not but Prostrate Trouble now???

BRP kit from any BRP (Evinrude) dealer or on-line. As TD suggests, you may want to blow out the cooling system. Compressed air or water applied to the water pump tube should do as well. Who knows where all that rubber landed?

The benefit of buying from a dealer is you can look at the parts before you leave to make sure it's the right stuff.

 

[dumb boater]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - New Water Pump/Impeller - Has prostrate trouble??

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - New Water Pump/Impeller - Has prostrate trouble??

For someone with zilch for knowledge about outboards you sure do learn fast.
Good for you, nothing like havin a go.!

even if it fails you learned a ton of info for the next go round ,
that you can do it with expert advise.

I appreciate that...it's a challenge that has been frustrating at times, but the next time it will be much easier. It's actually very interesting, and I'm having a little fun.

I did pull the pee hose off...unfortunatly, the elbow indicator that was attached to the engine was so old and brittle it broke off when I pulled on the hose...#@$#$@$%@#$!!!! I'm pretty sure I did blow a couple of small chunks out of the hose after this, so maybe that's all it was...oh well. Now I'll have to find an elbow indicater. Would one of those be available at an auto store, or do I have to order one online?

Thanks again guys!

 

[ezeke]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not but Prostrate Trouble now???

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not but Prostrate Trouble now???

The tell-tale engine outlet fitting is used on many different motors, so any dealer should have some in stock.

Hope you are following Dhadley's advice on the new head gaskets; the longer you wait, the more damage will be done if water is getting to the firing chambers.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not but Prostrate Trouble now???

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not but Prostrate Trouble now???

dumb boater, DHadley is one of the most knowledgeable, senior guys here, along with Ezeke, TD, and F_R. When he talks, you know, everyone listens (or something like that. All I know is I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[dumb boater]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not? Took Head off and attached Pics.

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not? Took Head off and attached Pics.

Thanks again for your help so far...Just took the head off of the side with the low compression. I first took off the Cover, and the Gasket under that was fused to the cover, so I imagine I need to replace that as well. Then took off the head and the head gasket was also somewhat fused, but not as much as the Cover gasket. I visually inspected the cylinders, and felt around them. I did not feel or see any big scratches. There are a lot of very fine scratches that you can't feel. I took some pictures and attached them here. I also took a picture of the piston heads. Not sure what those are supposed to look like, but they don't look great to me and I don't know much.

At this point, do I buy new head gaskets, cover gaskets, and water reflectors based on what I've done so far and what you see in the pics? Or do I have bigger problems?

 

[dumb boater]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not? Took Head off and attached Pics.

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not? Took Head off and attached Pics.

I did some searching and looked at some other pistons much worse than these, but I don't know exactly. Please look at my prior post and pics and any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[mikesea]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Update...took off head and attached pics...

Everything seems to be OK,the fine scratches are actually supposed to be there,its call xhatching for oil and ring seating,I cant see the bottom piston top well,but,it may show a sign of water that will steam clean the pistin,what was the compression??clean the surfaces of the head and the eng.block very well.Install ONLY NEW headgaskets,then carefully starting in the middle TORQUE the bolts down in small pregession like,50 inch pounds,then 100,then 150 then 200 the final should be about 240 inch lbs.BUT ,BUT BUT Please check in the final,I been out of business a while,you want to torque in a circular pattern from middle out.TORQUING IS VERY IMPORTANT

 

[daselbee]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not? Took Head off and attached Pics.

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Maybe not? Took Head off and attached Pics.

I think it looks OK from what can be seen in the pics.
The scratches you are seeing are crosshatch pattern from the honing, and are normal.
You do not want to see any scratches that run from top to bottom (vertically) in the cylinder.

You may just get off very lucky with this...considering this post was started with the assumption that the engine was blown...

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Update...took off head and attached pics...

Pictures are a little hard to read, but doesn't look too bad. MIKESEA has it right about cleaning everything up .... DO NOT scratch or gouge mating surfaces, make sure to get the torque specs for your motor and if you've never torqued a both before, get some help. Head gaskets are installed dry (no sealer required). Also, replace the water deflectors which everything is open and don't get debris on the holes (stuff rags in them while cleaning the gasket surface). While you're cleaning stuff, use a wire wheel on the bolt threads.

Follow the shop manual for the bolt torque sequence and torque value. Bolts must be retorqued after about 10 hours of operation.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown???

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown???

Have the boat at the shop now...compression tested at 75, 100 on one side and 125 and 125 on the other. .......

Something does not add up. You don't have that kind of variation unless you have a bad head gasket or bad rings or both; are you sure that you are looking at the correct bank of cylinders?

 

[dumb boater]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown???

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown???

Something does not add up. You don't have that kind of variation unless you have a bad head gasket or bad rings or both; are you sure that you are looking at the correct bank of cylinders?

I didn't ask the shop which side was which. Maybe I made the wrong assumption on the side. I pulled off the side where the paint on the motor turned tan (not white) so I assumed that was the hottest, and therefore the worst side. I'm going to replace both gaskets anyway if everyone thinks things don't look too bad. When I get the other head off, I'll post any additional pictures if things look different.

What do I clean the piston head and engie block with? Anything special? And what should they look like when I'm done?

I don't have a torque wrench that measures the amount of lbs. How much do one of those cost? I have your basic socket set that you get at Christmas time when people don't know what else to buy you.

I have a manual coming that will hopefully help on the order on replacing the bolts.

What does a bad gasket look like? The one I pulled off was still in one piece, but slightly fused to the metal.

And should I get the parts from the evinrude online store to get OEM in these cases?

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Update...took off head and attached pics...

You can get a 1/2" drive beam type torque wrench for I guess under $30. In any case, it's not optional. Regardless of what the old gasket looks like, you'll need a new one.

The surfaces should look like clean metal. Use a gasket scraper very carefully, and a gasket remover compound may help as well. Surfaces must be absolutely clean and smooth.

A bad gasket (one that was leaking) may show some slight channeling, discoloration in a very specific pattern, etc. But you may not see anything remarkable.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Update...took off head and attached pics...

OMC makes a gasket and gel-seal remover spray.
It has a little straw for application, and you can be very accurate where it is applied with the straw.
It is good stuff, apply it, wait, and then the scraping is very very easy.
Use rubber gloves...

Autozone MIGHT have an inch pound torque wrench that you can take out on their loaner program. The inch pound wrenches will be far more accurate than the foot pound ones for such a low torque value as is required for the heads.

 

[dumb boater]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Update...took off head and attached pics...

OMC makes a gasket and gel-seal remover spray.
It has a little straw for application, and you can be very accurate where it is applied with the straw.
It is good stuff, apply it, wait, and then the scraping is very very easy.
Use rubber gloves...

I'll get some of that. To be sure that I don't do something stupid, where exactly should I spray the stuff? Or maybe more important, where should I NOT to spray it?

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Update...took off head and attached pics...

Don't get it in the bores ... you should stuff rags in all before you start clean up anyway. You want to get it on the gasket mating surfaces only, but not a problem if some get in the water side.

 

[dumb boater]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Update...took off head and attached pics...

Took apart the other head at lunch. There is some scratching on the one on top, and limited scratching on the bottom cylinder. The heads look the same as the other side. Now do I have bigger problems?

 

[daselbee]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Update...took off head and attached pics...

As Jim says ^^^^^^.
I use a light touch on the can's spray head. Push in very lightly, and the stuff is very controllable with the straw. Let it sit, it kinda bubbles a bit. Just wipe up any overspray with a paper towel.
It is harsh, it will burn your skin.

You have an open deck crossflow engine. The very critical sealing area is in that 1/4 in wide circumference immediately around each cylinder. Do not nick that area.

 

[dumb boater]

Re: 79 Johnson Outboard - Blown??? - Update...took off head and attached pics...

Sorry for all these questions. Do I clean the heads and cylinder walls? Or leave these be? And please see the Pics of the other cylinders above...The one does have some scratching. Not deep (at least I don't think deep), but the scratches are noticeable.