what brakes

[boatguy19]

my trailer did not come with brakes on it and it has two axles, im moving to florida in about three months and i want to put brakes on it and dont know which ones to buy. are the drum brakes good or are the electric disc brakes the way to go what are the pros and cons between the two. the boat and trailer weigh in around 3200lbs,my truck has no problem at all towing it but i just cant bear the thought of driving from maryland to florida with no brakes. i live right on the chesapeak and only had to move the boat 500ft to go in the water so i did not need them, im not worried about pulling its stopping that im concerned about. also do i need brakes on both axles or just one. thanks for your help in advance.

 

[ultrarunner]

Re: what brakes

A buddy got a great deal ordering/buying a complete new axle with drum brakes...

Ordering the complete set-up was less than ordering the parts... brakes on one axle is 100% better than none at all

It's one of those things you hope you never need and thank your lucky starts if you ever do.

If the trailer is new... you might be able to work out a swap with the dealer?

 

[Splat]

Re: what brakes

Personally I like electric brakes better, however some argue they will corrode away in a matter of years with use in salt water.

Still, i like electrics WAY better than surge. Plus they are easier to install with no need to add a actuator to the tongue of the trailer.

Are you considering Hydro over electric disc brakes?

or have they figured out how to make true electric disc brakes(this would be news to me, but very exciting.)
Bill

 

[Navy Jr.]

Re: what brakes

I'm a little surprised your trailer doesn't already have brakes. From the table of state requirements, it appears the laws in Maryland require brakes for rigs 3000+ lbs.

Anyway, while I haven't priced out the difference between the two systems, I would think standard disc brakes would be a good choice. They aren't that difficult to install, and they're much easier to maintain. Replacing a disc pad is light years easier than replacing a set of brake shoes. Also, drum brakes don't work that well when wet, especially when compared to discs. As mentioned below, you might find a great deal online for a complete kit. -Ken

 

[180shabah]

Re: what brakes

Another vote for electric, which are only available with drums, unless you go the electric overhydraulic, which is very expensive.

Electric brakes don't rot any faster than hydraulic, and you are one step ahead of the lawyers if you are in an accident. in the FMVSS it states that trailer brakes must be capable of independant activation from the cab. This was squarely aimed at heavy commercial trucks and trailers, but there is no exception for our pickups and SUV's. Surge brakes do not meet this requirement.

Several states including Maryland have determined that surge brakes are actually "illegal", but it is not actively enforced or even discouraged at this point.

If a final determination is made agreeing with the FMVSS as written, don't expect to get away some grandfather clause that protects your surge brakes, since technically they were "illegal" to start with.

Just some food for thought, but I think that anybody who is adding brake or doing a major overhaul, and does not use electrics is taking a big gamble.

 

[eli_lilly]

Re: what brakes

The standard brake for South Florida is Kodiak stainless with surge actuator. In fresh water it doesn't matter as much but any other brake in the salt and you'll be replacing it every season.

-E

 

[180shabah]

Re: what brakes

any other brake in the salt and you'll be replacing it every season.

Just not true. Check out Fultons brakes - they are available with the sharkskin coating - it is self healing and passes a 1000hr salt spray test. That equals years not months.

 

[eli_lilly]

Re: what brakes

Just not true. Check out Fultons brakes - they are available with the sharkskin coating - it is self healing and passes a 1000hr salt spray test. That equals years not months.

OK, since it's not true, who down here is rigging their trailers with the Fultons? Loadmaster - no. Float On - no. Fastload - no. Rolls - no. Rocket - no. Owens and Sons - no. Fulton can't even make a trailer jack that lasts more than a season down here. The $150 F2 still has a steel drive screw in the middle that starts rusting the first time you use the jack.

-E

 

[dmccaffrey]

Re: what brakes

in the FMVSS it states that trailer brakes must be capable of independant activation from the cab. This was squarely aimed at heavy commercial trucks and trailers, but there is no exception for our pickups and SUV's. Surge brakes do not meet this requirement.

I hate it when people give incorrect and outdated information.

First of all, these rules were in the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations which are solely concerned with COMMERCIAL vehicles and not the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards which govern all vehicles. So they don't apply to private trailers and never have.

Secondly, these rules were overturned last year. The new rules, directly from the FMCA website (section 3.93.48) clearly state:

(d) Surge brakes. (1) Surge brakes are allowed on:

(d)(1)(i) Any trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 12,000 pounds or less, when its GVWR does not exceed 1.75 times the GVWR of the towing vehicle; and

(d)(1)(ii) Any trailer with a GVWR greater than 12,000 pounds, but less than 20,001 pounds, when its GVWR does not exceed 1.25 times the GVWR of the towing vehicle.

(d)(2) The gross vehicle weight (GVW) of a trailer equipped with surge brakes may be used instead of its GVWR to calculate compliance with the weight ratios specified in paragraph (d)(1) of this section when the trailer manufacturer?s GVWR label is missing.

(d)(3) The GVW of a trailer equipped with surge brakes must be used to calculate compliance with the weight ratios specified in paragraph (d)(1) of this section when the trailer?s GVW exceeds its GVWR.

(d)(4) The surge brakes must meet the requirements of ?393.40.

Even if these rules applied to private trailers (which they don't), I don't think there is a trailerable boat that falls outside these limits.

 

[109jb]

Re: what brakes

Here is what I would choose and in order of preference taking cost AND operation into consideration (my opinion):

For fresh water use:
1. Electric drums
2. Electric over hydraulic disc
3. Surge of any kind

For salt water use:
1. electric over hydraulic disc
2. electric drum with some kind of added protection (coatings, etc.)
3. surge of any kind

I have owned trailers equipped with surge brakes and compared to electric I just don't like them.

edit: Oh yeah, you asked about which axle to put them on. On a leaf spring tandem axle trailer with the conventional rocker assembly you would want the brakes on the rear axle if only doing one axle. Obviously putting brakes on both axles would be better. If dual torsion axles it shouldn't matter which axle as long as the trailer sits level.

 

[Bob's Garage]

Re: what brakes

There are other considerations invloved here be sides our preferences. Florida law requires brakes on all axles on trailers over 3000#. Since you are having to install brakes anyway, now is the time to do it right. So go with both axles and be in compliance and safe at the same time.

Living in Florida, and being less than perfect about hosing off my trailer after every use, I have finally acquired a trailer with disc brakes on both axles and love it.

They happen to be Tie-downs, which a number of Posters seem to dislike, but I have had no issues with them in the 2 years I have been using them.

I have learned to use the surge brakes to control my stopping and almost never experience the jerking when starting up now, and I can feel the brakes stopping the trailer when applying the brakes, and it feels good.

However, when the time comes to repair/replace the actuator, I am going to go with the electric/hydraulic as I like the control the driver has from the cab over the trailer brakes.

I have had drum brakes on my previous 4 trailers and will never have drums again. They are a pain and I never felt the confidence in their stopping ability that I have with the disc brakes.

If you go with discs be sure to remove or disable the "back-up" solenoid as it will prevent your trailer from being able to be backed up.

Bob

 

[lombard]

Re: what brakes

If you go with discs be sure to remove or disable the "back-up" solenoid as it will prevent your trailer from being able to be backed up.

Bob

The backup solenoid is installed specifically to allow you to back up your trailer without using a mechanical lock out on the actuator.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: what brakes

My two bits as a Loooong time florida trailer boater.

Surge with Kodiak is the standard down here. (For those with brakes that actually work)

My buddy two years ago bought a new boat and a trailer with tandum axles and drum brakes with the water hose attachments for rinsing. In the first year he had problems by the second year they were disabled....

 

[180shabah]

Re: what brakes

dmmcaffrey - thank you for setting the record straight, and posting the code references for everyone to see.

 

[dingbat]

Re: what brakes

Shark skins or not. Drum brakes and Saltwater don't mix. Change over to disc and never look back.

Several states including Maryland have determined that surge brakes are actually "illegal", but it is not actively enforced or even discouraged at this point.

If a final determination is made agreeing with the FMVSS as written, don't expect to get away some grandfather clause that protects your surge brakes, since technically they were "illegal" to start with.

Just some food for thought, but I think that anybody who is adding brake or doing a major overhaul, and does not use electrics is taking a big gamble.

It is not illegal to have surge brakes in the State of Maryland.

14 (L) (1) IN THIS SUBSECTION, "SURGE BRAKES" MEANS A BRAKING SYSTEM
15 DESIGNED TO ACTIVATE THE BRAKES OF A VEHICLE BEING TOWED AS A RESULT OF
16 THE FORWARD PRESSURE OF THE VEHICLE AGAINST THE TOWING VEHICLE DURING
17 DECELERATION.

18 (2) A TRAILER OR SEMITRAILER MAY BE EQUIPPED WITH SURGE
19 BRAKES IF:

20 (I) THE TRAILER OR SEMITRAILER HAS A MANUFACTURER'S
21 GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING, OR REGISTERED WEIGHT, WHICHEVER IS LESS, OF
22 10,000 POUNDS OR LESS;

23 (II) THE COMBINED GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING, COMBINED
24 REGISTERED WEIGHT, AND THE GROSS COMBINATION WEIGHT OF THE TRAILER OR
25 SEMITRAILER AND THE TOWING VEHICLE IS 26,000 POUNDS OR LESS;

26 (III) THE VEHICLE OR COMBINATION OF VEHICLES IS NOT
27 DESIGNED OR USED TO TRANSPORT 16 OR MORE PASSENGERS INCLUDING THE
28 DRIVER OF THE TOWING VEHICLE;

29 (IV) THE ACTUAL GROSS WEIGHT OF THE TRAILER OR SEMITRAILER
30 AND LOAD DOES NOT EXCEED THE MANUFACTURER'S GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT
31 RATING OR REGISTERED WEIGHT, WHICHEVER IS LESS;

32 (V) THE ACTUAL GROSS WEIGHT OF THE TOWING VEHICLE AND
33 LOAD DOES NOT EXCEED THE MANUFACTURER'S GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING
34 OR REGISTERED WEIGHT, WHICHEVER IS LESS;

35 (VI) THE TRAILER OR SEMITRAILER BRAKES ARE DESIGNED AND
36 CONNECTED IN SUCH A MANNER THAT IN CASE OF ACCIDENTAL BREAKAWAY OF
37 THE TOWED VEHICLE, THE BRAKES WILL APPLY AUTOMATICALLY;

38 (VII) THE VEHICLE OR COMBINATION OF VEHICLES IS NOT USED TO
39 TRANSPORT HAZARDOUS MATERIALS OF A TYPE AND QUANTITY THAT REQUIRES
40 PLACARDING;