#1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

[maxum247]

1989 125 hp Force Outboard. What would (most likely) cause the #1 and #3 cylinders to fire weak or not fire at all. I've seen this asked several times while searching the different forums, but I haven't been able to determine exactly what causes the problem or in my case solve it so far and my Clymer manual doesn't seem to cover the issue.
I know there's a reason for it, maybe more than one, anyone had this problem and discovered the answer or a way of solving the problem short of replacing everything from the ignition switch back to the motor a peice at the time until possibily finding the problem?

Could it possibly be partly mechanical in some way?


Thanks!

max!

 

[maxum247]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

Well I seem to be at a stand still with the weak spark issue I'm having on cylinders #1 and #3 of my 1989 125HP Force outboard motor so tommorrow I think I will pull the flywheel and visually inspect the stator and it's surroundings such as the trigger, etc. I think I may give the company that I ordered my stator from a few years ago a call and see if they can shed some light on the spark issue that I am having.

max!

 

[john from md]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

When you say fire weak, do you mean you are getting an orange spark instead of a blue spark?

John

 

[maxum247]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

When you say fire weak, do you mean you are getting an orange spark instead of a blue spark?

John

1989 125 HP Force outboard

Cylinders #1 and #3 very weak orange spark, cylinders #2 and #4 very strong blue spark.

max!

 

[john from md]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

Clean the ground connections for each of the coils and try again. If you still get orange sparks, swap two of the coils and see if it changes. If it moves, you have bad coils, if the problem stays with the same cylinders, it is conceivable that both of your CDI boxes have a bad circuit.

To test for this, you need to know that one module controls the 1 & 2 cylinder and the other controls the #3 and #4. Since your problem is with the 1&3 cylinders, you need to try to swap a good circuit to a bad cylinder. This is not as easy as it sounds as you will have to swap wires on the circuit board. If you can read a schematic, you can review the manual and swap the respective wires and see if the problem moves.

Hopefully, your problem will be bad grounds or bad coils. They are much cheaper than CDI boxes.

John

 

[maxum247]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

Clean the ground connections for each of the coils and try again. If you still get orange sparks, swap two of the coils and see if it changes. If it moves, you have bad coils, if the problem stays with the same cylinders, it is conceivable that both of your CDI boxes have a bad circuit.

To test for this, you need to know that one module controls the 1 & 2 cylinder and the other controls the #3 and #4. Since your problem is with the 1&3 cylinders, you need to try to swap a good circuit to a bad cylinder. This is not as easy as it sounds as you will have to swap wires on the circuit board. If you can read a schematic, you can review the manual and swap the respective wires and see if the problem moves.

Hopefully, your problem will be bad grounds or bad coils. They are much cheaper than CDI boxes.

John

So far I've cleaned all wiring connections from the steering console to the engine terminals including the battery connections and so fourth but will check them again just to be sure. Cdi Stator tested 326 ohms each pair of wires, each pair of trigger wires tested 49 ohms, strong blue spark on each coil, rectifier checks out when tested, guage shows charging correctly, swapped cd modules around and the
problem didn't change, #1 and #3 still get a weak orange spark, #2 and #4 strong blue spark.
I will try swapping the circuits and wiring around on the modules and see what happens.

Thanks!

max!

 

[Jeremy90bay]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

When you say "strong blue spark on each coil" do all 4 have strong spark at coils or just 2+4?

 

[john from md]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

I hate to say it but it sounds like a couple of bad CDI circuits.

For future reference in case you don't know, whenever you are spinning the engine the plugs or plug wires must be grounded. If they are not, the feedback through the CDI shortens its life.

John

 

[maxum247]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

When you say "strong blue spark on each coil" do all 4 have strong spark at coils or just 2+4?

Only 2 and 4. If I move the coils from cylinders 1 and 3 that are firing the weak orange spark to cylinders 2 and 4, coils 1 and 3 now fire a strong blue spark, coils 2 and 4 now moved to cylinders 1 and 3 loose the strong blue spark they had and now have the weak orange spark, this is how I discovered all four coils to be good.

max!

 

[maxum247]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

I hate to say it but it sounds like a couple of bad CDI circuits.

For future reference in case you don't know, whenever you are spinning the engine the plugs or plug wires must be grounded. If they are not, the feedback through the CDI shortens its life.

John

I've got a cd module coming this week sometime, I'll give that try and go from there. Thank you!

max!

 

[john from md]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

Good luck, I hope it solves your problem.

John

 

[maxum247]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

I got my used blue module put on today and the wire colors on the used module are different than the original module I have. I only have spark on cylinder #2 now so I've completely lost cylinders 1,3,4 before it was just cylinders 1 and 3 that had weak spark. I wired the module useing my manual but I think I may not have wired it correctly.

Can anyone advise IF this is correct or do I have it wired wrong?

Starting at the front of the motor trigger side: white and yellow stripe to my green, white and orange stripe to my orange, white and red stripe to my red, white and green stripe to my white and green stripe.

Stator side: Brown and blue stripe to my brown and blue stripe, and brown and yellow stripe to my brown and yellow stripe.

A black ground wire replaced the original black ground wire and a black and yellow kill wire replaced my white kill wire.

My original module has all solid color wires and one stripped: green, orange, red, (one white and green stripe wire), blue, yellow, white kill wire, black ground, coil wires orange and red.

Thanks!

max!

 

[Jeremy90bay]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

Im not sure about the wiring. but I was told that you CAN NOT interchange coils or modules so if your module isnt correct for the motor than maybe thats why its not working. just a thought.

 

[john from md]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

Is this module that you bought supposed to be a direct replacement for the original? If so, I would call the place your bought it from and ask about the wiring compatability.

John

 

[maxum247]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

Is this module that you bought supposed to be a direct replacement for the original? If so, I would call the place your bought it from and ask about the wiring compatability.

John

It's a used one I picked up recently. It's from a 125 Force outboard, late 80's I beleive.

max!

 

[Jeremy90bay]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

I would try to find some numbers on it to cross or call where you got it from. if it was the correct one I would think it would have the right color wires. I have a new one coming for my 50 on fri from iboats. I will let you know how it looks.

 

[maxum247]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

I got my used blue module put on today but the wire colors are different than the original module I have. I only have spark on cylinder #2 so I've completely lost cylinders 1,3,4 before it was just cylinders 1 and 3 that had weak spark. I wired the module useing my manual but I think I may not have wired it correctly.

Can anyone advise IF this is correct or do I have it wired wrong?

Starting at the front of the motor trigger side: white and yellow stripe to my green, white and orange stripe to my orange, white and red stripe to my red, white and green stripe to my white and green stripe.

Stator side: Brown and blue stripe to my brown and blue stripe, and brown and yellow stripe to my brown and yellow stripe.

A black ground wire replaced the original black ground wire and a black and yellow kill wire replaced my white kill wire.

My original module has all solid color wires and one stripped: green, orange, red, (one white and green stripe wire), blue, yellow, white kill wire, black ground, coil wires orange and red.

Thanks!

max!

I picked up a used blue cd module for my 1989 125 Force recently and can't find any numbers on either the original blue module or the used blue module to help identify the two for compatability, can anyone tell me by the wire colors I've given above if I have it hooked up correctly or if it is even a compatable replacement for the original one on my motor or how I can go about finding out? (Please read above for details.)


Thanks!

max!

 

[maxum247]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

Update: I originally had weak spark on cylinders 1 and 3 on my 1989 125 Force outboard. I replaced the cd module for cylinders 1 and 2 with a used one I picked up recently but in doing so I lost spark on cylinder 4 as well as 1 and 3. I put the original module back on and regained spark on cylinder 4 so now I have spark on 2 and 4 again so I decided the next step was to replace the cd module for cylinders 3 and 4 with the used module and see if I got spark on cylinders 1 and 3, by doing so I now have a good crisp spark on all four cylinders.

Thanks!

max!

 

[Jeremy90bay]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

Was the wiring wrong? what did you do differant?

 

[maxum247]

Re: #1 and #3 fire weak! What causes it? Anybody know?

Was the wiring wrong? what did you do differant?

Appears the wiring was correct just had the module in the wrong location. With cylinders 1 and 3 weak on spark I needed to mount the used module I picked up in place of the module for cylinders 3 and 4. So I guess if you have weak spark on cylinders 2 and 4 you would replace the module for cylinders 1 and 2 providing the other parts on the motor have checked out to be good.

max!