96 Force 120 wont start

[trophyman]

My engine cranks just fine. Fast and steady but no start. no kicks, no sputters. Checked for spark and nothing. It was running fine on Wednesday and it is Saturday an it will not even kick. Where do I start? I have 4 coils for each cylinder no spark at each. I am not familiar with the ignition electronics. Based on my reading in the forum and the manual, the stator is involved with the recifyer to create power to the coils. How would I go about diagnosing where the problem is? I find it odd that it workd fine 4 days ago and today nothing. Any suggestions and advice appreciated.

Trophyman

 

[199675hpforce]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

LOL lanyard switch? I went to the lake tried starting and thought it was something in engine. Nope the stupid switch lol.

 

[roscoe]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

I find it odd that you lost spark on all 4, as that is a cdm ignition system.

Start by checking the safety kill switch.
Check the main fuse.
Check all wires for crack /missing insulation or loose connections, don't forget the ground wires including the black ground wire that comes off the trigger.

If no spark on any of the 4, either the kill swich is off,
the ignition switch is bad, the stator is burned up, the trigger is shorted,
or a ground connection is bad.



Pretty simple ignition system.

Stator generates power to the 4 cdm's.
Trigger sends a signal to the cdm's telling them when to fire.

Check the ignition switch.
2 of the terminals should be labeled with the letter "M".
Should have black/yello stripe wire on one, and the same or a blue/black stripe wire on the other.

With the switch off, there should be continuity between the 2 M terminals.

With the switch on, there should not be continuity.

Then there is the possibility that the kill switch is shorted by a loose wire behind it.

 

[trophyman]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

When the kill switch is engaged, is the circuit open or closed? I disconnected the kill switch and tried to start - no spark. I connected the wires together and still no spark. My feeling is that the kill switch is working correctly, but something else is causing the no spark situation. It is odd that it ran fine a few days ago and now nothing. anymore thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[trophyman]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

Ok this just got interesting! Roscoe I followed you suggestions to test the ignition switch and had continuity between the M terminals. The kill switch did not have any loose or broken wires but I wasn't sure how to test it. To me it is either an open or closed circuit, but I'll research that some more. I then disconnected the kill circuit at the power pack and tried cranking. Cranking was slow so I changed the battery thinking that I wore it down from cranking on it several times already. Cranked and the engine fired. Great it is the kill circuit. reconnected to verify and it fired again! OK now what? So now I'm not sure if there is even any problem. The 1st Battery was slow on the initial crank but then spun the flywheel fairly well. The second battery spun the flywheel without hesitation and rapidly. I can't beleive it is the battery. Any thoughts. I am also concerned about the rectifier/regulator. I'll attach some pics.

 

[trophyman]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

I attached pictures of the rectifier. Notice the reddish spots forming around some of the solder joints. While researching my ignition issues I saw a post with a picture similar with a bigger reddish spot right in the middle of the circuit board and a post indicating it was shot. any thoughts

 

[tonycrespo]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

check the terminal block where the kill switch wiring is connected on engine block. Check real closly. I had a carbon trail build up (short) at this point and it was giving me the same problem. No start sometimes and start other times.
I moved these leads to a unused terminal and problem went away...

Just a thought

 

[trophyman]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

ok, things went well today. No problems starting and the engine ran well 30 mph at 5000 rpms. My only concern was that the volt meter show 16 volts at one point. I have to research how to check the regulator. I hope that my original problem was caused by a bad battery.

 

[trophyman]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

OK this is frustrating. Have the same problem as a month ago. Used the boat about a dozen times with the last run a relitively long running time of about 3 hours round trip. Things were great. Boat sat for about a week and when I tried to start it it cranked like crazy but no start, kick or sputter. Definitly fuel. Went through the no spark test procedure by disconnecting the black yellow wires at the pack for the kill circuit. no change. disconnected the yelloow wires from the stator to rectifier. no change. I had changed the rectifier in July because the voltmeter was reading 16v at high speed. read a steady 13v after change. Not sure how to test stator output. tested resistance between wht/grn and grn/wht and meter showed no resistance or reading. I'm not sure if the stator is the problem or if there is something else going on. Any thoughts would greatly be appreciated.

 

[Eckart]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

Sorry no help with the no start but I've got a 96 120 hp that will start charging at 16 volts once in a while. Was it the rectifier or the voltage regulator that you changed to fix yours?

 

[trophyman]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

the voltage regulator and rectifyer are one unit. there is a picture of it in one of my earlier posts. square box on right side of motor near the cdms. you can look up the part in iboats parts and order it online for $50 less than retail.

 

[trophyman]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

The saga continues! Having difficulties getting the flywheel off. Purchased an inexpensive electric impact to get the nut loose - no problem. Then I purchased a $40 2 jaw puller. Set it up and started cranking down. no movement! can't get the flywheel to budge. I'm being real careful not to do any damage to the flywheel or shaft, but I am afraid to put to much pressure on the shaft. Tried heat on both wheel and shaft, no go. Not sure what to do from here other than put it back together and take it to "The Guy" at the boat yard. I just need to get at the stator to determine if it is dead, replace it and get back to boating. Oh well I'll mudddle along.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

Very easy to check the stator. With the engine running at fast idle, approx 2000 RPM's you should be reading around 16 Volts A.C. on the two yellow leads coming from the stator to the rectifier/regulator. If you read say 13 or 10 volts A.C. , then the stator is not putting out proper voltage. If OK, check the red or orange lead on the rectifier/regulator. Here, you should read at least 14.5 volts D.C. with motor at 2000 RPM's. If not, rectifier/regulator is bad.

 

[trophyman]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

I feel like this has become more of a blog than an iboats thread looking for help but I think the more info people have the better advice they can give. The flywheel was set in place and required quite a bit of force to remove it. I had the flywheel nut threaded down even with the shaft to protect the threads from damage and when the flywheel finally popped it popped with such force that one of the magnets on the inside was damaged. I includ a pic if I can. Also the nut peeled back on the corners where it came in contact with the bore of the flywheel. Anyway it is off and the stator is off. Now what has to be done to replace it with the new "Red" stator. I've been told it is $500. and it is a kit that includes a regulator. I just replaced that in early July. Do I have to again? New amp size? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[trophyman]

Re: 96 Force 120 wont start

I'm up and running. Went to Marine Shop this morning and picked up a new/used stator. It was "like new" but used. He said it was part of a kit that used the other components but not the stator. For $100 how could I go wrong. Checked the resistance against brand new out of the box and it was dead on around 650. The part number was slightly different but I was assured it would be fine. Part #398-832975-a11. Engine is running fine. I hope I can put this issue to rest. Thanks to all who provided input.