Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

[KRH1326]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

No the part that is crushing me is this:

If I do the smart thing, I have to pay for a tow from mooring to a ramp, next harbor over. approx. 200$. Pay a transporter to get it back home 200$ - 300$, plus there is now a major waiting list, as MANY are just putting in now. I can lose a day's pay and maybe get it done during the week , in a week or two. I am not a rich man, I just try to make the best of what I have to work with. If I do this, I am finnished ,financially, for the year.

- OR -

IF I CAN GET THE SHAFT OUT, either with magnets or by popping a hole in the pan and retrieving it, I can try to get new shaft and dizzy in, fire up and see what happens. I burnt up the bearings or I didn't, period. Eigther way I'ld find out.

I have found a donor boat with the exact same engine, int housing and outdrive I have now.

One minute I am decided to pull it and walk away in disgust, next I am like %$#@ it, let'er rip. I am chasing my tail like a retarded dog.

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

I know exactly what you mean with the plugs. When I install the manifold, I just catch the four bolts, then stand up and heave upward on it and hold it, then tighten. I can get mine in and out ok with a standard 5/8 plug socket and a 3/8" swivel.

PS- Using AC- MR43T

 

[parrisw]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

This happened to me on our boat. It is a 302, but i had just enough room to unbolt the pan drop the pan a few inches get my hand in there and take out the oil pump drive shaft, drop the oil pump, install new shaft, bolt oil pump back up, sit new gaskets in there, bolt the pan back up and all is good. It was tight, but I got it done and never had to pull the motor. Worth a shot!!

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

I have that old select trim. The motor is mounted to the stringers by a pair of hydrolic pistons. I know sounds wild right. I hit the button and the WHOLE front of the block comes up, same to go down. I can lift that thing about 4-5 " higher than a normally mounted engine. I have plenty of room underneath, but those pistons are part of a cradle and there is a support bar that crosses an inch under the pan, so all the lift in the world don't help.

If I couldn't fish the shaft out with snake mags, I would punch a hole in the side of the pan, and then plug patch/ when done.

If I tried this, I wouldn't attempt to fire with out retrieval.

 

[parrisw]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

I have that old select trim. The motor is mounted to the stringers by a pair of hydrolic pistons. I know sounds wild right. I hit the button and the WHOLE front of the block comes up, same to go down. I can lift that thing about 4-5 " higher than a normally mounted engine. I have plenty of room underneath, but those pistons are part of a cradle and there is a support bar that crosses an inch under the pan, so all the lift in the world don't help.

If I couldn't fish the shaft out with snake mags, I would punch a hole in the side of the pan, and then plug patch/ when done.

If I tried this, I wouldn't attempt to fire with out retrieval.

You can't remove the support bar?

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

To be honest, I can't recall if I can remove it or not. Boat is on mooring and I am stuck watching my 3 little ones, sitting at my computer and banging my head off the screen. I keep hitting 'escape' but nothing happens.

No, seriously, wife works nites I work days. At night I am Mr. Mom. My next opp to go look at the bar will be Thurs eve. That may alter my choices.

 

[parrisw]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

To be honest, I can't recall if I can remove it or not. Boat is on mooring and I am stuck watching my 3 little ones, sitting at my computer and banging my head off the screen. I keep hitting 'escape' but nothing happens.

No, seriously, wife works nites I work days. At night I am Mr. Mom. My next opp to go look at the bar will be Thurs eve. That may alter my choices.

I hear ya. I got two little kids too. Hard to find time for these things. Take em to the boat with ya, and put em to work!!!

 

[mkast]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

I suggest you look at this from a different point of view.
Suppose you read this on another forum, what would you tell the poster to do?

 

[racinrc14]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

KRH, I'll pull the pan back off and install the driveshaft the right way. It's easy to do since the motor is still on the stand. Thanks for the heads up, glad I read this post!!

 

[racinrc14]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

By the way, anyone know of a slick method to get the front/rear rubber pan gasket to squeeze in between the cap ridges long enough to get the pan on without pinching them? PITA when it's all covered with blue silicone.

 

[mkast]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

A long time ago, both the cork end gasket on the intake manifold and the rubber end gasket on the oil pan were replaced with a double bead (one on top of the other) of RTV.
Look at the gasket, you have to apply enough to fill the void, but not too much to make a mess.
Wait for it to skin over before installing, or it will blow out if it's not cured.

 

[racinrc14]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

Oh, that sounds much easier than what I tried last night. I think I may have invented a new language while trying to keep the rubber gasket in place with a flat screwdriver while lowering the pan onto it.

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

UPDATE:

Wednesday evening I drained the oil. It was super clean, as I had done an oil change this past weekend. No burnt aroma, no discoloration. Still was opauque with that caramel or honey color.

One of the 3 long flex magnets that I ordered arrived, as did the new Elgin pump shaft. I tried using a strong magnet to hold shaft into distributor bottom, but that did not work as well as I had hoped. I abandoned that approach. I used Proshadetree's trick, and JB Welded the shaft into distributor.

I spent an hour and a half "fishing" through the dizzy hole, into pan. I was able to extract a piece of the shaft that measured 4-3/4" long and my retaining clip was still on it, though it was now several inches from the end. The pump shaft is 8-1/4" when intact.

Thursday evening (today), another of the magnets arrived. Before I went down to boat, I took an ancient one that I had and modified it. This one had 2 plastic ends, one is magnetic. It was a spring, lexible type. I took a 4' piece of old drain snake, almost the same diameter as the magnet shaft. I pulled both ends off the snake, drilled the opening a little bigger, then threaded and JB Welded these ends onto the 4' snake.

After 2-1/2" hours of "fishing" through the dizzy hole and the fuel pump shaft opening, I came up with another piece of the pump shaft, and time stood still as I took a tape measure to it. Yeah Man- 3-1/2".

I put the distributor/ shaft assembly in. filled with new oil. Said a prayer and hit the key. This engine has never ran so good, since I dropped it in the boat. Having fixed the 2 and 4 wires and valve lash, the rough loping idle is gone. Not a "tick", "ping", "clunk", squeak or "knock". The idle is so smooth and quiet, I can hear the new self regulating alternator brushes turning. Oil pressure at 50 psi, at idle, as soon as it fired up.

It has been pouring rain and thunderstorms here for over a week, and yes it was raining on me while doing this work yesterday and today, so I didn't take a run off the mooring.

Saturday the rain is supposed to let up, so I will run and see what happens.

Big thank you to proshadetree for that trick, and thank you to the rest of the forum for the support and advice.

 

[racinrc14]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

Woo Hoo! Good luck man. I hope the run Saturday goes smoothly.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

Good for You Man! I forgot it was a Ford, I'm not that familiar with the oil pump rod, or Distributor mounting,,, But, I would have done exactly as you did, Glad to hear you got "lucky"! We were all pullin for ya, I hope it all stays good for you! Mike

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

You must of had an angel looking over your shoulder to have fished that shaft out.Or your the best fisherman Ive heard of.I do all my fords that way it easy to time the dizzy and you dont ever have to worry about dropping the shaft when you pull them out.Now get on the water and wear that engine out.If you wear it out it means you had that much lake time.

 

[a70eliminator]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

I've been there, only rather than the pump shaft it was a 1/4 ratchet extention 6". I fed a light up through the oil pan drain hole, I took two small wires about 3' long and soldered up a marker light bulb, lit up the whole inside of the crankcase, I could see the object leaning across one of the crank throws, my professional mechanic friend came over and brought a nice selection of retriever magnets and mechanical fingers and about an hour surgery later we got it out through the distributor hole.
If you go to the ford Motorsports forum there are a bunch of guys running with pump drive shafts still laying at the bottom of their pans, in my opinion that shaft will lay there forever, that is if it's in fact laying flat in the bottom of the pan. It's going to be very difficult to retrieve because you can work through the oil drain like as if it were in a car or truck, I would just leave it in there and not look back, chances of it leaving the bottom of the pan are slim to none. Try putting one in a pan of oil and kick it bounce it shake it whatever, you won't be able even come close to bouncing up out of the oil.
OH GREAT YOU GOT IT OUT!!! GOOD JOB

 

[rjlipscomb]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

...I spent an hour and a half "fishing" through the dizzy hole, into pan...After 2-1/2" hours of "fishing" through the dizzy hole and the fuel pump shaft opening,...

Quite an impressive display of patience. And, a good lesson for me to remember. But, I just can't imagine having that kind of patience.

 

[cr2k]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

Well if the damage is done it's done. Pulling the engine wont fix it but would allow you to.

I would be tempted to drop in a new shaft and see what happens.

We do a lot of ford oil changes by warming up the engine, pulling the oil sending unit replace with a fitting and a hose in to a bucket and start and idle till no more oil comes out. Never bee a problem. But dont know your rpms or if you had oil for awhile and then lost pressure.

If you are thinking of engine replaecment anyway give it a shot.

Or if you had a chevy you wouldn't be here.

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Dropped Oil Pump Shaft

I will take bein 'lucky' over bein 'good' anyday. I was only able to be patient because I did it over two different days. I said alot of prayers to my grandfathers, too. Maybe they were helping...

I think I may have ( I don't know for sure yet) avoided lifter and bearing damage to a couple of different factors. When I assemble any engine truck marine, Harley, whatever, I use a TON of straight STP oil treatment as oil to lube parts. Stuff is thick like mollasses or heavy honey, or karo syrup. These brand new bearings only had maybe 4 or 5 hours on em. First couple of oil changes, I substitute a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil for a quart of oil. Does wonders for lifters. I have broken supposedly seized engines with Marvel and Marvel seems to pump lifters right up. I know STP and Marvel-Real Old School.

Did not get to take her for a real run today. I traveled 260 miles and bought the engine, intermediary housing and outdrive, the Exact same as mine. I only took a sawzall with me. On the donor boat (1976 Grady open runabout) I cut the top of the transom off. Then slice down the ramaining transom followed along the stringers, then when clear of the engine front , cut, cut to cut. Had engine held with an engine hoist, while doin it. Hoisted it a little higher and pulled the boat and trailer out from under. Looked great with engine/ int housing still attached to a fiberglass skid hangin there. Backed my old pick up under and away I go.

So thanks to my new friend, Jeff, in Forked River NJ, for 500 bucks I got another 351 to play with, an intact int housing, and another 235 hp elec shift outdrive that had been proffessionally rebuilt 7 years ago, BUT never used. And 3 NEW props as well, not a dent or chip at all. I took a minute to cut the console dash out for good measure. Complete set of identicle guages and tilt switch and trim switch. ------SCORE------

When my shaft catastrophe occured, it was at idle. Never reved. I think my estimate of 10 mins. may have been a bit much. It sure did seem like a long time, but it might have been not that long.

Or if you had a chevy you wouldn't be here.

OH NO, you went there... I was that guy with the '72 f-100 short bed with a screamin Jack Merkel 351W four on the floor, that had the First On Race Day and the stupid Calvin peein on the bow tie stickers.... Actually, I still have an old 8.5 lb B&M blower I was going to put on it, I wonder if that would fit my OMC hmmm...........

I was only going to fire it up if I retrieved all 8 1/4" of the shaft. I bet the shaft would lay flat, But I don't KNOW. I was considering sticking a couple of stereo speaker magnets on the bottom of the pan to make sure.

I will try a real run tommorrow, Sunday, if it is not pouring.

Thanks again to all.