First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

[Glastron_V210]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here.

I pulled my father-in-law's 305 with 2 plugs popped out. I replaced the plugs and did a leak down test on the cooling system and it's fine. It's been running without incident ever since (3 years ago). 1 thing to note is use brass plugs to replace the popped out ones, seeing as it sounds like you're fresh water cooled (Automotive are the other choice and are short term in a freshwated cooled system).

You're on the right track with the mechanic checking everything out. Maybe it's toast and maybe not.


Chay

 

[Glastron_V210]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Honestly, I was surprised too.

But it happened. As sure as I'm sitting here.....***poof***



Where'd everybody go?

 

[IVAZ]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

So popping plugs doesn't relieve the pressure that would otherwise crack the block?

The only purpose to the core plugs is to plug the holes where the sand was removed in the casting process. They provide 0% protection in freezing conditions.

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here.

I pulled my father-in-law's 305 with 2 plugs popped out. I replaced the plugs and did a leak down test on the cooling system and it's fine. It's been running without incident ever since (3 years ago). 1 thing to note is use brass plugs to replace the popped out ones, seeing as it sounds like you're fresh water cooled (Automotive are the other choice and are short term in a freshwated cooled system).

You're on the right track with the mechanic checking everything out. Maybe it's toast and maybe not.


Chay

Well, I'm still currently in the running (no pun...) to join your father-in-law as a rare case of survival despite stupidity. I just got back from the marine mechanic I left with my boat. His initial evaluation, which entailed checking the oil for water, then feeling around all over the block for signs of cracking, checking over the manifolds, etc. left him saying generally positive things about the chances of bullet dodging. I'm still mentally prepping for worst case, but it's good to have someone who's around this stuff daily at least not say "you're SO toast."

Next steps per his rec is that he remove the outdrive and hoist the engine to where he can get a good look all around and install new core plugs. He says he'll then feed water in directly to the inlet on the water pump and run it for awhile under that "house" level of pressure. According to this guy that should be enough to expose any internal leaks. Any concurrence from you guys on that method?

So, right now I'm looking at $500 to do this partial pull, repair, evaluate, reinstall scenario. IF it turns out I'm toast, then the $500 in full will be applied to going to the next step of having them replace my longblock with one of their rebuilds and reinstall. That total bill, parts and labor, was quoted as $2000 for that worst case scenario. All in all, I would consider myself lucky to get out for $2K, and lottery worthy if it's only $500.

I'll update when I hear back. Thanks for all the advice/support.

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

But I guarantee that if you stay in boating, you will never make this mistake again.

You KNOW you got that right!

I did winterize with draining and fogging the first several years I owned the boat. Yep, piece of cake. My rationalizations as to why I skipped it this go-round seem pretty hollow in hindsight...

I guess I'll put the self-deprication mallet down for now and focus on fixing and moving forward with a newfound sense of diligence on maintaining my boat!

 

[bamadave]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

I just said a prayer to the Supreme Architect of the Universe for you. I've never heard of testing the block in the manner you described. Even though I've never done it, my understanding is you have to block off ALL openings and pressurize to find internal leaks. Rest assured if I'm wrong or if there is another procedure, the pro's here will let it be known. Good Luck!

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

I just said a prayer to the Supreme Architect of the Universe for you. I've never heard of testing the block in the manner you described. Even though I've never done it, my understanding is you have to block off ALL openings and pressurize to find internal leaks.

Thanks. I did the same right before the mechanic's initial eval -- complete with "I promise I'll never do this again" elements.

I'm not sure of the details of how the mechanic plans to test. I'm trusting that he knows what he's doing well enough to properly determine if there is damage or not. Either way, it will be $ spent towards a true fix since a mis-diagnosis now will still be credited towards the full rework.

Continued prayers are welcomed!

 

[Glastron_V210]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

The proceure you talked about sound ok...

From a cooling perspective the block is just like a car engine...a pipe with an in and an out. Nothing complicated there.

I'd still do a pressure test rather than a running and checking test. Block all the inlets and outlets with plugs and pressurize to 15psi and wait. Use 'SNOOP' (Leak detection fluid) to ensure the plugs aren't leaking and causing false conclusions. This worked killer for identifying a leak in my system, which turned out to be the thermostat gasket.

The run and check deal might be ok, but if you have a small internal crack, how long will you have to run it for it to show up in the oil/dipstick etc? It's a bit less conclusive in my opinion.

Chay

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

All I can say about some of the short answers we give is that all of the most important information we can give you is located in the "adults" section.
There has to be 30-40 cracked blocks this year for failing to follow some of the most basic things ,like pulling block and manifold drains and rodding them to make sure there open to drain. power steering coolers,etc.
"? " My boat does this
"A" check the coil
reply: where is it or what does it look like?
It is up to YOU, the boat owner to become familiar with the systems on your boat.Locate the manuals in the above area and READ THEM, COVER TO COVER,then if you still need an answer or something clarified you can leave a page number for reference.Everything needed for a trouble free year is there, maintance items, service items, general instruction on greasing , lubricating, control operation,how to`s,
So please don`t come down on the people trying to help you with a problem if we give a "short " answer.We may be alll knowing but we dont know it all, there are times the we must refer to a manual too.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Many times freeze damage will remain hidden until the motor is actually placed into service and put under a load, turning the prop IN WATER.

You can idle an engine all day and still not get the block and manifolds up to full operating temps as found running up the river.

Engine load is the only true measure of whether or not this engine has survived.

NO Marine Mechanic that I know of is willing to give you any guarantee until that boat is water tested, THEN re-inspected.

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

The proceure you talked about sound ok...

From a cooling perspective the block is just like a car engine...a pipe with an in and an out. Nothing complicated there.

I'd still do a pressure test rather than a running and checking test. Block all the inlets and outlets with plugs and pressurize to 15psi and wait. Use 'SNOOP' (Leak detection fluid) to ensure the plugs aren't leaking and causing false conclusions. This worked killer for identifying a leak in my system, which turned out to be the thermostat gasket.

The run and check deal might be ok, but if you have a small internal crack, how long will you have to run it for it to show up in the oil/dipstick etc? It's a bit less conclusive in my opinion.

Chay

Thanks -- some good info there. I'll definitely use that in my go forward talks with the mechanic doing the work.

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

All I can say about some of the short answers we give is that all of the most important information we can give you is located in the "adults" section.
There has to be 30-40 cracked blocks this year for failing to follow some of the most basic things ,like pulling block and manifold drains and rodding them to make sure there open to drain. power steering coolers,etc.
"? " My boat does this
"A" check the coil
reply: where is it or what does it look like?
It is up to YOU, the boat owner to become familiar with the systems on your boat.Locate the manuals in the above area and READ THEM, COVER TO COVER,then if you still need an answer or something clarified you can leave a page number for reference.Everything needed for a trouble free year is there, maintance items, service items, general instruction on greasing , lubricating, control operation,how to`s,
So please don`t come down on the people trying to help you with a problem if we give a "short " answer.We may be alll knowing but we dont know it all, there are times the we must refer to a manual too.

Geez...I've never met such crabbiness on a forum after years of using them as a great source of info/knowledge. I ask one simple question about a relatively obscure part (at least for a boat OWNER, not mechanic -- maybe I'm mistakenly on a mechanics-only forum??) when I needed a quick answer with my boat sitting in the driveway potentially dead to the tune of thousands of dollars. Excuse frickin me for not going off to read every bit of written information on marine engines known to man before having the gall to ask where it is or what it looks like. I do ususally look around other threads for same info, but that can take quite a bit of time. Immediately after posting that question I DID search freeze/core plugs pretty extensively, but couldn't find the location/appearance info I was looking for. I did also refer to the Mercruiser manual I have, but it didn't show the plug locations for my engine. Knowing where they are is needed/helpful as my engine is well down into the glass in my boat so I just needed to feel around, but didn't know where to start.

Regardless, one would think you could ask a simple question and get a simple answer without this much upset. Uhmm, like "on a Chevy V8 there are 2 plugs each side near the top of the block, one towards the front and one towards the back. The front ones are usually behind the motor mount, between the mount and the block. They are approx 2" in diameter and recessed about a 1/4" into the block, so if you feel around the surface of the block with your fingers you can often feel whether one has popped out. The rim of the plug should not be protruding from the block at all. There are also X other plugs on the front and rear of the engine." Now that I've actually seen the plug on both my engine and a bare block at the marine mechanics shop, I'd be happy to share what limited knowledge I have with someone else asking this question. Maybe I'm confused, but I thought that's how a forum works.

Fortunately, many nice folks on this forum appear happy to share from their personal experiences to try to help me through this. My thanks to them.

 

[IVAZ]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

You are taking Bt Doctor's comment the wrong way. He is simply stating that it will be easier to help you if you familiarize yourself with your boat. If you read other posts of his you will see he provides a lot of help.

 

[ziggy]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

so did you find where your core plugs go?

don't know if this will help, but... http://www.s-series.org/htm/tech/GMPerfParts/046-050.pdf

a pic of a sbc. further down in the pdf file is a core plug set. it has 8 plugs, so i'll assume 8 places for the plugs. if you look at the pic, you can infer as to where the plugs go...

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

so did you find where your core plugs go?

don't know if this will help, but... http://www.s-series.org/htm/tech/GMPerfParts/046-050.pdf

a pic of a sbc. further down in the pdf file is a core plug set. it has 8 plugs, so i'll assume 8 places for the plugs. if you look at the pic, you can infer as to where the plugs go...

Yep, I found them. I also got to see a bare (trashed, internal crack) block at the mechanic's shop, so that was very helpful.

Thx for your help.

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

For all of you who said I was most likely toast -- you were right. After pulling the motor partially out, the mechanic found 2 cracks on one side of the block and 4 on the other. Said repairing might get me a year, or might last a long time. But, suggested that really the block was too compromised to be trusted if repaired. I gave it about 3 seconds of thought and cut him loose to replace the short block.

As has been said, this is a mistake I won't make again...

Thanks for all the help and expectation setting.

 

[PhatboyC]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Mind as well turn this incident into an engine upgrade!?

 

[mariettaken]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Mind as well turn this incident into an engine upgrade!?

The thought crossed my mind. However, I have been satisfied with performance of my boat for the way we use it. I'm not familiar enough to know what would be good, cost-effective upgrades. Right now I'm mostly focused on getting it back in good running form for as little cashola as possible (while doing it right, of course).

 

[Dan Crenshaw]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

I have the same problem but I did remove 2 freeze plugs but missed a third. Dumb me thought it was the oil drain plug. I just got back from the lake for the first test run of the year and water is pouring out of a crack on the left side of the engine just above freeze plug i did not remove. I have had 4 different boats over the last 20 years and don't have a clue how I missed one. I checked the oil and there doesn't seem to be any water in the oil. Is there a difference in a crack that is only on the outside and only pouring water out the side of the engine like mine but not into the oil compared to a crack that is also allowing water into the oil? Or does it not really matter because the required repair is the same?

 

[Don S]

Re: First start after failure to winterize Merc 5.7l

Dan, start a new thread with your question, NEVER just tack on to someone elses post with your problem and try to make it your thread. It's way confusing trying to figure out who is replying to who's posts.