Some chest puffing and Questions . . .

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
zu2hp0.jpg


Well I got this PCM 350 with my ChrisCraft replica project. I have slowed a little (a lot) on the boat part, so I decided to get my juices flowing again by getting this thing running. I hooked up all of my gauges and the ignition so I am running it as if it is actually in the boat before installing.

Engine Test Video

For reference my professional experience is almost 100% diesels, so I am:

a) Clueless about carbs . . .

b) Pretty dumb when it comes to ignition, start and so forth circuits

So to my questions:

1) I don't have a starter slave solenoid/switch deal thing . . . Do I need one?

2) My electric choke thing is getting and staying hot while the engine is running. Should it be? I can touch, and keep my finger there. It is plastic which tells me it is insulating some of the heat, but it is hotter than anything else around it . . .

spvqdi.jpg


3) This is a very basic and old points ignition system. Should I consider an upgrade as required? I am going to sell this thing, and I want it right. But I also don't want any expenses that are not required.
 

danond

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
1,118
Re: Some chest pumping and Questions . . .

Re: Some chest pumping and Questions . . .

The electric choke should stay hot while running - that keeps the spring expanded and holds the choke plate open.

Points work great in boat motors, I'd leave them in there if you're selling it.

The starter "slave" solenoid is just another relay to help the starter kick over. If it didn't have one to start, and starts fine now, you can do without it. Chevy starters had a real issue with heat soak on old cars/trucks and couldn't spin over without the relay/solenoid being mounted somewhere else than the starter. Too close to the headers/manifolds. Ford figured this out sooner than Chevy, but both eventually went to a remote solenoid mounted up high.
 

J. Mark

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
303
Re: Some chest pumping and Questions . . .

Re: Some chest pumping and Questions . . .

sounds real good. Nice job. I like how you set everything up just as it will go in the boat.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Some chest pumping and Questions . . .

Re: Some chest pumping and Questions . . .

Thanks. The only thing I didn't use for this test was the fuel tank I have which I am rigging up today. Kinda fun to just go out there and hear her sing for a few minutes. So much fun I had to go get some more gas . . . :rolleyes:

The guy I bought it from ran it only to break in the cam, other than that totally fresh even including a tranny rebuild. Funny how stuff fails just sitting though . . . I watched him crank it over with the plugs out to see that it got oil pressure before I bought it. I wasn't too concerned about running it then as he had all of his receipts etc. and he is a Maintenance Foreman for the Vehicle Dept. at LA Water and Power (big org.). Anyway, a year later, the flippin' starter was dead. I got one for $125 off eBay, and other than that all has been good.
 

JustJason

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
5,319
Re: Some chest pumping and Questions . . .

Re: Some chest pumping and Questions . . .

danond said:
The starter "slave" solenoid is just another relay to help the starter kick over. If it didn't have one to start, and starts fine now, you can do without it. Chevy starters had a real issue with heat soak on old cars/trucks and couldn't spin over without the relay/solenoid being mounted somewhere else than the starter. Too close to the headers/manifolds. Ford figured this out sooner than Chevy, but both eventually went to a remote solenoid mounted up high

That is actually......................................... completely incorrect.

(i'm not a PCM guy, so i'll substitute everything with Merc)

Here's the deal with slave solenoids. The starter has a typical starter solenoid that any GM car starter has on it. The slave solenoid does not kick the starter over. The slave solenoid kicks the starter solenoid over. The starter solenoid still kicks the starter over.

It takes quite a few amps to kick that starter solenoid over.

Without it, a few amps of juice runs up the length of the boat, to the keyswitch. When you hit the key the juice runs back down the boat to the starter.

Without it... Well if you had a 20 foot boat then you need 40 feet of wire that can handle said juice. Boat builders are notorius for not using wire that's up to AWG or NMMA specs. Merc has known this for years. Now if you had a 60 foot boat then you need 120 feet of wire... so on, and so forth.

With all electrical systems, But especially low voltage DC. Voltage drops are a normal occurence in long lengths of wire (especially if the incorrect gauge is used)

If the voltage drops, and the current is available from the battery. All wires/switches in a circuit will draw more amps than the system was designed for.

Merc has no idea what engine is going into what size boat.

Keyswitches, in the long run, do not like amps, the less the better and the longer they will last.

Using a slave solenoid means this....

Power goes from the battery to the slave solenoid. Power also goes from the battery to the keyswitch. But because it takes less current to power the slave solenoid than it does the starter solenoid itself. Less current over long lengths of wire makes everything happy with smiley faces and ponys and rainbows and everything last longer.

The keyswitch and related wiring are incapable of drawing to much current. Basically it keeps higher current on the engine side of things, where Merc has figured out all the correct wire lengths and gauges. And it keeps lower current, on the boat side of things, where who knows who wired what with what.

Hope this helps :)
 

danond

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
1,118
Re: Some chest puffing and Questions . . .

Pffft. It's not incorrect on cars. Yeah yeah we're talking about boats. :D
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Some chest pumping and Questions . . .

Re: Some chest pumping and Questions . . .

The keyswitch and related wiring are incapable of drawing to much current. Basically it keeps higher current on the engine side of things, where Merc has figured out all the correct wire lengths and gauges. And it keeps lower current, on the boat side of things, where who knows who wired what with what
Makes sense . . . I am doing the wiring, so I'll keep that in mind. Also, mid-engine on a 19 footer, so I can't run wires too far no matter how hard I try . . . ;) I am using the whole length of the harness now and she cranks great. I don't feel anything hot at the switch, but I'll double check.

Got the fuel tank I am using done and all is good with that. I need to add a fuel filter and then the basic power, gauge, and electrical system will all be as I will install, so it seems like a pretty good test minus anything that will show up with load on the engine. Bummer is that I am kinda done with this diversion and now I have to go back to sanding and painting. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted . . . :D
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: Some chest puffing and Questions . . .

:eek: Carb's on that beauty...EFI...i just happen to have a top line TBI system for that beauty...and i will glady let you pay me on a tuesday...;)..

If it were me electronic ign would be the only way...;) If not remeber to bring a emery cloth with you at all time's...:D...No expert here but a hot wire indicate's a dead short...Let's see what Don or Bond-o say.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Some chest puffing and Questions . . .

EFI...i just happen to have a top line TBI system for that beauty...and i will glady let you pay me on a tuesday...
Are you saying you have a system laying around? If so, first I will issue an infraction for soliciting :eek: :D and then I'll fire off a PM to discuss our personal transaction possibilities :)

If it were me electronic ign would be the only way...;) If not remeber to bring a emery cloth with you at all time's.
Despite my ignorance on ignition systems, I do know how to freshen up points . . . If budget was no issue this would be an MPI system along with the latest marine ignition system. I guess if budget was no issue, she'd be 75 ft. with twin 1000 bhp diesels, but I digress . . . :p ;)

No expert here but a hot wire indicate's a dead short...Let's see what Don or Bond-o say.
I don't have a hot wire anywhere. I was concerned about a hot Electric Choke, but not any of the wiring. As part of my question regarding the slave solenoid there has been some discussion about hot ignition wiring, but I don't think I am seeing that. If adding a slave solenoid to the start circuit is a good thing, I guess I'll do it. But she cranks great, and the harness I have seems to have sufficient gauge wiring for the direct to starter solenoid type system. Any more light on this issue would be appreciated for sure.
 

coastalcruiser

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
559
Re: Some chest puffing and Questions . . .

Pffft. It's not incorrect on cars. Yeah yeah we're talking about boats. :D

I used to fix my old VW van and porsche 914 with a Ford solenoid. Makes em start EVERY time!
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Some chest puffing and Questions . . .

I used to fix my old VW van and porsche 914 with a Ford solenoid. Makes em start EVERY time!

Did the same with my Honda Lawnrider. 100$ for the OEM starter solenoid, 6$ for a Ford type Napa solenoid. Budda Bing, off and running again.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Some chest puffing and Questions . . .

You're now looking for 6 month old posts to reply too ??????? Must be bored.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: Some chest puffing and Questions . . .

You're now looking for 6 month old posts to reply too ??????? Must be bored.

Hey, it's pouring rain and gloomy as all get out here. What else can a guy do?:p
 
Top