125 tilt and trim oil

[heycookieman]

Is it ok to use trim oil or should I use 30 weight. The stuff that came out was pink it looked like tranny oil all most. Thanks

 

[RRitt]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

if it was pink then stick with pink. Make sure to use the variety without any additives or detergents.

 

[heycookieman]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

Ok it went up and down twice and now it won't move.The motor is running and I see trim oil coming out of the hole on the side. It looks like there is air in the oil.What is the best way to get the air out or should I do something else. Thanks

 

[RRitt]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

the air is of no consequence. your unit will still raise and lower perfectly. The best thing you can do for air bubbles is forget about them. They don't cause any problems of any sort at any time under any condition.

So it ran twice then quits lifting even though motor running.

If your system is single ram -
then I wonder if you messed with that big nylon screw at bottom? Ouch. Yikes. If so, need to take that thing all the way out and inspect tip of nylon plug. Is it round? It should have a sperical tip. If not, then that's your problem. If it does have sherical tip then you probably got debris jammed in pump. The Eaton pumps are way sensitive about debris.

If your system is three ram with square motor base -
then you might owe mercury a big sarcastic "thank you". They saved a quarter at the factory by using cheap fluid. It eats up all the orings but not before warranty runs out - so, like, what did they care? When this (1992-1995 era) type of system has any lift/hold problems the wise course of action is a complete rebuild of both pump and rams. I have rebuilt a whole bunch of pumps/motors for 92-95 mercury/force twice. The reason for initial problem is usually deteriorating rubber in the rams. people get cheap and fix the pump only. The rams blow out completely and re-ruin the pump. Best thing you can do is 110% rebuild and use ISO32 hydraulic fluid.

If your system is three ram with round base -
Then it doesn't make sense. The system should not have had red fluid in the first place. In the second place the prestolite pump does a gresat job of tolerating debris. It should not be so fragile that a small bit of debris can cause large failure. Help the engine up with your hand and then let go. Does it sink back down almost all the way even though motor is running? That's usually a blown piston ring on trim.

 

[heycookieman]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

RITT thanks for your help.OK I just tried it again and it broke 4 out of the 5 bolts off on the trim ram housing. I got all 5 bolts out and I see that the o ring for the trim ram has a piece missing.What would cause it to break like that? Thanks again

 

[RRitt]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

RITT thanks for your help.OK I just tried it again and it broke 4 out of the 5 bolts off on the trim ram housing. I got all 5 bolts out and I see that the o ring for the trim ram has a piece missing.What would cause it to break like that? Thanks again

It is just another chapter in the ongoing saga of Darth Mercury's efforts to convert the Force away from Chrysler engineering and over to the dark side.

(aka mercury cutting corners and using cheap ATF)


also - IMHO - you should cease and desist immediately. The more you work on this then the more expensive your repair bill is going to get. You need to stop now and get the trim bolts taken out by a professional. If four bolts broke then you will probably need to get the sleeve machined out as well. You are getting dangerously close to the point where it becomes cheaper to throw it in the trash. The most desirable force trim system is a broken 1989/90. There is no such thing as a working 1989. Just one that won't break until next week. You can buy a freshwater 89/90 that bleeds down for $150ish - get it completely worked over and renewed for $300ish. If you keep taking your system apart and breaking stuff that $450 price tag will start looking really good.

 

[merlinclark]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

Hey Senior Chief,
I've read a few of the post and am impressed with your knowledge! Wouldn't be a MM or BM would ya?
Anyway, I have a couple of questions if you don't mind:
1) I've had to (partially) rebuild my 1998 Force 50 T/T and was lucky a friend that is a mechanic had one that had a cracked motor plate. Sold it to me cheap, so I was able to get the parts I needed= mainly the cap through which the piston shaft passes, that screws into the cylinder.
Now, I've got it back together and don't know the procedure for filling it with fluid. Can you give a poor, misbegotten GMG1 (usedtobe) a little advice?
2) If the darn thing still doesn't work, is there a place to send it to for rebuild?
Thanks, Merlin Clark.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

Hey Senior Chief,
I've read a few of the post and am impressed with your knowledge! Wouldn't be a MM or BM would ya?
Anyway, I have a couple of questions if you don't mind:
1) I've had to (partially) rebuild my 1998 Force 50 T/T and was lucky a friend that is a mechanic had one that had a cracked motor plate. Sold it to me cheap, so I was able to get the parts I needed= mainly the cap through which the piston shaft passes, that screws into the cylinder.
Now, I've got it back together and don't know the procedure for filling it with fluid. Can you give a poor, misbegotten GMG1 (usedtobe) a little advice?
2) If the darn thing still doesn't work, is there a place to send it to for rebuild?
Thanks, Merlin Clark.

It should work just fine. You got the old top off and a new top on - which is the hardest part. put fluid in and run it up a bit. It will stop lifting when you need to add more. Takes about three or four full reservoirs before you'll have the piston filled up again. So fill and lift, fill and lift, fill and lift ... once it is all the way up then put on cap and tighten.

 

[merlinclark]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

Thanks!

 

[heycookieman]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

Ok one more thing please, Does anyone have a good picture of the lines and were they go to. Upper, lower trim and upper, lower tilt. It looks like someone worked on it before me. Just want to make sure that they are on right. I have a 4 line pump, 2 wire setup it's an 1988 force 125. Thanks

 

[heycookieman]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

Ok maybe not a picture but could you tell me starting closest to the boat and working away from it where the lines should go.I know the first two are the tilt and the second two are the trim.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

i'm guessing you have an eaton pump with all four lines pointing straight out of bottom. Prestolite pumps have one port facing down and three ports facing into transom clamp. Oildyne has all four ports facing down like the Eaton but the Oildyne ports are all in a row on the far left of manifold.

At any rate I don't know of any pictures for Eaton. Hook up the one or two that are obvious and unmistakable. Plug the other ports (except for one) with 3/16" inverted flare brake plugs (from NAPA or any other auto store). Run the down switch and see if oil squirts out. If it does then hook up "down" tubing. Run switch up and see which ports squirt oil. Hook tubes accordingly.

 

[merlinclark]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

It should work just fine. You got the old top off and a new top on - which is the hardest part. put fluid in and run it up a bit. It will stop lifting when you need to add more. Takes about three or four full reservoirs before you'll have the piston filled up again. So fill and lift, fill and lift, fill and lift ... once it is all the way up then put on cap and tighten.

Well Senior Chief, I filled it and it goes up but not down. The relays are just a few months old and the motor is running both directions. I called the local shop that does Force and Mercury repairs and they told me it sounded like the shuttle valve.
On this diagram, can you tell me which part is the shuttle valve?

http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury_parts/1696/20.cfm

Thanks again, Merlin.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

there isn't really a shuttle valve in that design.

Recheck relays and motor to make absolutely sure that motor is getting power and spinning in both directions.

If motor spinning in both directi0ons then check part #9 to see if tip is broken off. If not, then plan on full rebuild of entire pump assembly. Half rebuild will probably leave debris and lead to repeated problems.

 

[heycookieman]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

Ok I got the tilt and trim working. It worked for half a day and now it is not. The trim ram will come out if the motor is not on it and tilt is not working at all. The pump is working and the fluid level is good and there are no leaks. Just don't know if I blow the seals or not.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 125 tilt and trim oil

If your system was bleeding down before you started messing with it then rebuild valve body. If your system was not bleeding down before then do following: block motor up and out of way > see if you can push trim piston back in by hand. If you can push shaft back in by hand then rebuild rams first. If you can not, then rebuild valve body first. After doing one or the other try again and see if system works. If the problem persists then fix the other part. The time that you will spend isolating one half from the other is about the same amount of time you'll spend rebuilding it. So by taking an educated guess and rebuilding first you come out ahead no matter what. Your worst case scenario is same amount of time resulting in twice the repairs.