Kicker bracket HELP!

[thannah84]

I know I know...Another Kicker bracket thread....I have a 84 22ft Startcraft Islander (Aluminum Hull)...OMC Sterndrive outdrive...I just bought a 2009 Tohatsu 9.8hp 4 Stroke..Longshaft, Electric Start. Now....that being said....I need to mount to transom. Where I am going to mount the kicker is about 36" Transom Hieght..So I know I am going to need an adjustable bracket...Everything I have read looks like I shouldn't go chincy on the bracket...So I am looking at a Garelick HD bracket with 15" of vertical travel and going with the EZ Steer system to steer it....Everything I look at is just so expensive and not sure if it is really worth the money...I am in Erie, Pa and will be using on Lake Erie, so It will be getting bounced around a lot. I will mainly be using it to troll with and also as a back-up to my main....Basically I want to get out of this without spending more on the mounting hardware than I did on the freakin motor...Everything that looks nice is between 1200 and 2 Grand to put on...Are these people crazy? Sounds like there needs to be some strong competition in the market to drive these prices down. I think that I am going to get some experience with running kickers and see what would be the best way to do things and then use my engineering degree for what it was meant for (Not sitting in an office and answering dumb emails all day)...So in closing what are the people running that have a mortgage payment and a family and are not rich? I am a bit weary of the EZ Steer...have heard good and bad things about it...Same with the Brackets....Don't know any other way to go without spending a fortune. Thanks in Advance.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

Those must be installed prices.

Is this what you're looking at?

http://www.iboats.com/Auxiliary_Mot...41818855--**********.532563246--view_id.38235

 

[thannah84]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

Nope...Those are not install prices....That is just material...And yes...That link is the Garelick bracket that I have been looking at....$450 plus $300 for the EZ Steer....$750 Tied up in the bracket and steering system..Panther Systems for the remote steering and bracket are well over $1200. I was looking at an OMC bracket on ebay $285, this is the one with the hydraulic cylinder as a helper to lift up and down. But it only has 11" of travel and I don't think that will be enough. I just want to get the best system for the money...There must be others in my situation that just spent +-$2000 on a motor and have to budget out another $700+ Just for brackets and steering. Just wondering what everyone else is running.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

I use one of these and like it better than other products and at under $70.00 for the SS one its easily worth the money.

http://www.iboats.com/Kicker_Motor_...41818855--**********.917773539--view_id.37928


An XL shaft on the kicker would help, but what you have is a long shaft, right?

The transom height means little, draft is what you're trying to overcome and being aluminum it should float higher in the water than glass, so most any of the height adjustable 4-S brackets will work fine.

 

[thannah84]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

Yes, it is a 20" Shaft. Will that steering rod connect to a OMC I/O....My main motor is not an outboard...will that still work? Thanks...you have been really helpful.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

You should be able to make it work, but without seeing it in person I can't say exactly how, each setup is a little different. If you go with the cheap model you will only be out $30.00 if it doesn't work. I bought the cheap one 7 years ago to see how well it would work, its still working grea, just not too pretty.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

I have an older Garelick bracket Rated for up to 20 HP that works very well. I started with a single bracket and it worked pretty well on the water. A little hard to lift and the motor would bounce around on the road. Mine has 15 and 1/2 inches of travel. I converted my 15 HP 2 stroke Johnson to a long shaft. I use an EZ-Steer to steer. My main motor is a 1980 OMC I/O Stringer.

Later I bought a second Kicker bracket of the same type and mounted side by side then made a bracket to tie both units together. Also made a handle so could release both brackets with the same lever. This made the unit a lot more stable on the road and made it a little easier to lift and lower.

If I just relese the bracket the motor will go down about half way then to get all the way down must push it down. When down if I just relese the lever it will come up about 1/2 way then half to lift the rest of the way.

If I were to do it again I might get a bracket with less travel. The main reason is the motor would set closer to the transom. Also I would get a Extra long Shaft motor. The one problem I have is off shore in 7 to 9 foot swells with the motor all the way down it goes completely under the water some times but as the swell passes under the boat the prop still comes out of the water. If it were closer to the transom this would be less of a problem.

This happends mostly when we use the kicker to slow our drift by backing into the swells. When fishing deep must slow the drift or use very heavy weights. Also when the wind is over about 30 knots slowing the drift means less hang up and more fish when rock fishing.

Here are a few pictures.

 

[thannah84]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

My OMC is a stringer as well....An 84' though..Have you had any problems with your ball gears??....Have you converted you ignition to electronic yet?.......My transom looks like about as deep as yours, except it is aluminum, that is why I wanted to get a bracket that has 15" of travel. To lower it low enough to get below the transom and raise it high enough for the prop to be out of the water. Do you think I could get away with a 9.5 inch travel bracket? How do you like the EZ Steer? I have heard good and bad things...to your point, I don't think I will be in 7 to 9 foot swells here on Lake Erie......The most I would see is about 3-5's and maybe an occasional 6 but that is no fun to fish in and probably wouldn't be using the kicker trying to head into waves and troll. My biggest worry is the strength of the bracket....I get bounced around on the lake alot because the intervals of waves are really close, so every 2-3s I am taking a 3-5 foot wave. But like I said, I probably wouldn't be fishing in this, probably trying to get in. I usually watch the marine forecast, but the forecasters are usually way off....Forecasting two feet or less and end up with 3-5's???

 

[Boatist]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

No problems with the ball gears but I rarely run with the motor tilted up.

I have had the water pump short shaft splines strip one time which leaves you dead in the water.

No I have not converted to electronic and I will not. I do not trust them. I have towed in several boats with them. Seams they left the key on without the motor running and it burned up. I think the later version is better but I have heard no one say there is a performance inprovement. Several say starts faster but my motor starts is less than 2 seconds. If the points fail I can change in less than 5 minutes with just a screwdriver. Same with the rotor and cap. I just carry a new spare and a used spare. Since 1980 have changed twice.

My hull is also Aluminum. It is a Crestliner and I love it.

If you just have short chop of 3 to 5 feet then the 15 inches of travel should be fine. Only problem on my boat is in Steep swells over 6 feet. With the motor all the way down it will go completely under the water then as the swell passes the prop will sometimes come out of the water. First time it happened I had quite a bit of power on and the motor reved way up when the prop came out of the water. When it dropped back in it broke the flywheel key and of course the motor was then out of time and quite. I now carry several spares, but when it nasty I would not try and change on the water unless the main motor quite.

Weather In Northern California Pacific Ocean has 20 to 30 knots winds out of the Northwest (320 degrees) almost every day in the summer. Conditions usually Fog with about 1/8 Mile visability every morning and winds around 15 knots. The wind increases most of the day and is worst about sunset. Most go out at first sign of light and come in by 1300. In general we will not launch our 21 foot aluminum Runabout if the sea are over 8 feet on closer together than 8 seconds. We have been out in 9 foot very steep swells every 6 seconds but was not much fun and we came in early. Fall and winter is much nicer unless there is a storm but the wife is in school so can not go. We listen the the marine forcast Everyday before launching. Also we check the reports from the waverider buoy 46013 which is 12 miles off shore. This is our main go or no go information source. It is 12 miles off shore but directly up wind form Bodega bay. Since the Swells travel about 20 miles per hour directly to our launch site, what happing at the Buoy will be happing at shore in just over 30 minutes. We always pay attention to the Small Craft Flags and Gale flags but they often fly them before the condition come up and often they are wrong and it is very nice out. That is why Our main source of launch or do something else is the wave rider Buoy. It gives up wind speed and direction, Gust speed, Swell height and direction, and how far apart in seconds.

The brackets you are looking at are a little better than the one I have form about 1985. I never had any problem with my bracket on the water. The poblem I had was while traveling on the road. People would sometimes come up and tell me my motor was about to fall off. I had my son follow us with a video camera to see what was happening and it did bounce around a lot and sway side to side. That is why I added the second bracker and made a mounting board to tie both brackets together. Then used a stainless steel bolt to tie both releases together. I put a PVC pipe over the 1/2 inch Stainless bolt to be a little more friendly to out hands.

EZ-Steer is great. Make sure you loosen the steering friction on the outboard and adjust the EZ-Steer length so both motors point straight ahead.
When I set up my bracket I set up where I can turn both motor toward each other and they will not touch, so when I have easy steer disconnected and running the kicker from the tiller handle I never have to worry about one motor hitting the other.

My 15 HP Johnson 2 Stroke only weighs 77 pounds. Your four stroke will be heavier. About half of my bounce comes from movement of the transom it self. On the road I also use a 1 inch nylon strap to hold the motor and bracket up tight. I still going to rig some sort of transom saver or shock abosorber for the bottom of the motor. I am also thinking of getting a 4 stroke 20 HP Honda electric Start or a Yamaha 20 HP electric start.

It is a lot more weight so may get a couple o brackets like your looking at. My main reason for chaining is I do not think the wife could start the manual 2 stroke when cold. While my sons could they do not get to go with us as much anymore. My consern is if something happened to me and the main motor did not start could the wife get under way with the kicker. I would hate for her to be stranded out off shore all alone with nothing but the radio, GPS and Loran C but no way to get in.

Lets us know what you end up with and how it works.

 

[thannah84]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

I wonder why the electronic conversion kits don't work that well?....I have to change the points every year...They really burn through them, that is why I wanted to change it to electronic ignition. I do use it a lot though. I will post pics when I am done with the install...What did you use as a backer plate on the inside of the transom? I am thinking of Getting some 3/8" SS and drilling and tapping and then adding some fender washers, lock washer, loctite than the nut...I would think that it would be sufficient...I may not tap the SS....That may be to hard on the alignment...But definetely putting a steel backer plate in over the 3/4" wood that is there....What is the optimal spacing center to center from main motor to kicker...I am thinking about 24-27" Somewhere in there. I have to order the EZ Steer directly from EZ steer because it has to be customized for the OMC Sterndrive. Do you leave the EZ Steer on while trailering and motoring??? Also, have you had any problems with your tilt motor? I had to replace 2 of them last year...I finally figured out that the gears on the left side of the motor were no aligning properly so I shimmed them....When the motor was all the way down and we motored for awhile the gear would get stuck and I couldn't raise my outdrive when I got back in...essentially burning up 2 motors...I have a brand new one on now and a spare since I had warranties on the ones that burnt...

 

[Boatist]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

The Printronics II is not suppose to burn up if you leave the key on like the first version. If it gained you 3 HP or anything I would consider changing, but the best I have herd is it starts faster and idels better.

If you have to change the points every year something is wrong. My motor is a 181 CI 3.0L 140 HP and I have chained twice since new in 1980. First time changed after 15 years but they looked good and worked perfect but I just figured long enough and changed. Last year I changed on the ocean in 5 foot swells. We were about 5 miles out of port and engine just shut off like you turned the key off. I started the kicker and put the wife on the helm and told her to head back. I opened the engine cover and made sure it was getting fuel and it was then checked for spark. No spark at all so checked the points and it was clear they were the problem. Told the wife I found the problem and noticed she is headed straight for shore. I stopped and explained to her that rocky shore with 100 foot high clifts is danger. Explained I would rather be off shore floating than slamming into the rocks. Told her to take a normal course in and stay about a mile off shore until we reach the entrance to protected waters. She corrected to a good course right away. I should have set the Loran C route for a return course like I always do when I am driving. Changed the points but could not adjust because not on a lobe so had the wife just bump the starter and it almost started. It stopped on top of a lobe so adjusted by eye and tightened down. Had wife start it and started normal. Closed up and got back underway out fishing. Took less than 10 minutes even with the interuption. Fished the rest of the week without more adjustment. I had a dwell meter on board but sounded so normal did not use it. When Home checked and was about 3 degrees off.

If you have to change every year then something is wrong unless your just doing it because someone told you it need to be done every year. Make sure when you change you change the capacitor. Also while running check the voltage on the plus side of the coil. It should be 8 or 9 volts. If it is higher then someone has changed the balast resistor or resitance wire or bypassed them. If those are both ok I would change the Coil but get the correct one from a Johnson/Evinrude dealer. Someone may have put one of the superduper coils on it without the porper capacitor.

Mounting My bracket on the inside I used a 4 inch U by 3/16 channel about 30 inches long. I only used it on the top bolts then I have a Stainless Steel washer and stainless steel nut and last a nylon lock stainless steel nut to lock it.

I do not know how far mine are apart but when I did it i wanted them as close together as I could get and still know that even if each motor was turned to the stop toward each other they would not hit then added about 3 inches. Measure and remeasure 5 times them mark and drill. Your mounting bracked will allow some movement of the outboard on the bracket but I feel should be centered.

I leave the EZ-Steer off while on the road. I hook it up when untieing the trailer and puting the fender out and antenna up in the pre launch area. Also after washing at the end of the day also remove. It is just one of those thing that can be removed in 5 seconds and a possible theft iteam so do not leave on when not needed.

My tilt motor is the original that came with the boat in 1980. At one point I did have a problem with the motor raising. Did a lot of checking but the final fix was to do a new lube on the tilt pins. I grease the zerts every year along with the steering gears and shaft but the motor was hard to raise. I removed the small gear the turns the large 1/4 round tilt gear. AT this point I could raise the outdrive by hand and could feel it bind up. So I blocked up under the outdrive with it in the down postion then raised the trailer front to put the out drive weight on the blocks. Then took both caps off the two pivot pins the outdrive pivots on. With the wife's help pulled the outdrive out away from the motor. On the pivot pins there are two sleeves with holes in them to let grease in. They were like you had glued then on. Finally got them off and cleaned all the old grease off and relubed with OMC Triple Guard grease and put back together. Note the sleeves have to go on the correct way. Out drive then lifted much eaiser and smooth all the way up or down. After that outdrive will raise all the way up in a count of 3. Will go all the way down with a 1/4 second tap on the down switch.

I also had a problem with water getting in the tilt clutch. So I took it apart and changed the drive side bushing and both seals. While I had it all apart I took the tilt clutch apart and removed 2 shims Hoping the out drive would kick up eaiser if I ever hit anything. At this point I wish I had took out 4 shims as I still can not break it loose. I also changed the gasket and O Ring on the Port side of the clutch. When back together works great. Before when hit the up switch some times it would move 3 inch and stop and I would have to do that 3 inches at a time to get it up. Was not a big deal as My out drive is about 6 inches off the ramp even when all the way down but wanted it to work right when have a minus tide and less then 6 inches of water.

I fear the day when one can not get new parts for the old stringer but I would buy again if OMC was still in business. I love the 90 degree turning and a tilt that will raise the prop out of the water when you get some Sea Weed wrapped around it. I also like the steering indicator that will tell you which way the outdrive is pointed on the true course steering.

 

[thannah84]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

The reason I change the points out every year is at the end of the season, it just seems like it is kind of hard starting, normally like you said 2 seconds and she fires up...I would say it took 5-6 seconds at the end of the season both years, so the points are so inexpensive that I just change them, as well as the condensor. I just ordered the pertronix ignitor II as well as a new coil. We will se how it works....If not, I can go back to points at any time with ease...I can even keep points as a spare for out on the water. Last year at the end of the year when I put the new points in I retimed it, it was probably 10 Degrees off at the time, so I adjusted the timing, maybe that was why it was hard starting, but it ran fine.

With the EZ Steer, does the quick connects corrode after time and get hard to open? Or do you lube them constantly?

My outdrive swings up and down really fast...I have done like you and lubed everything when I first bought it two seasons ago....I really like my OMC, but I hear people complain about them....The only trouble I have had with mine is the tilt motor, but that was a mechanical problem, and the ball gears which was my own damn fault cause I pegged the throttle with the outdrive half way up and stripped them out. No other problems to speak of other than changing the points every year. Runs like a dream for being 25 years old...I couldn't ask for anything better.....I paid 500 bucks for the boat 2 years ago cause it was sitting in a guys barn for 3 summers........It need a lot of work....Not any engine though....The floor needed replaced, seats replaced, All electronics were junk, engine cover, batteries, battery switch. As far as the engine goes, I had to replace the starter, points, rotor, condensor, plugs, wires. I also had to replace the outdrive boot because it was dry-rotted. So I poured my heart and soul into this boat and I absolutely love it now. I think all together I have about 4 Grand into it and that is including the new purchases I just made of the Brand new Kicker motor, the bracket and the electronic ignition that are all on their way.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

I think you will like the pertronix II and it is a good idea to keep the old points and instructions and anything else you need to change. I do not think the points can cause the motor to be 10 degrees out of time. 2 or 3 degrees yes but 10 has to be something else. Centrifical advance or distributer slipped. 10 degrees retarted would cut the motor power a lot and 10 degrees advanced would make the motor turn over like a dead battery and maybe blow a hole in a piston.

My easy steer been on the boat since about 1982 and show no sign of corrodsion. In lube the ball sockets every year with 3 weight motor oil and spray the connectors with TriFlow every season. I boat 50 percent in the Pacific ocean but wash the boat and trailer at the end of each day. No problems with EZ-Steer at all.

I have also replaced the Outdrive rubber boot one time and the outdrive waterpump impeller one time. Also replaced the Exhaust Manifold and Elbow one time. Changed the coil wire to the distributer to a real wire not a carbon wire. Also have changed the spark plugs twice. Also the alternator / waterpump belt twice.

My only real consern with OMC is if Part will become impossible to find and also if I find something I need help doing will their be qualified Sevicemen that will work on it.

The tilt motor has been a problem for many. I think on some boats it is actually below the water level. Seem some get so much water in the tilt clutch it runs up the shaft and get the motor wet. My boat is light so the motor is actually above the water level plus I change the oil at least once a year and check for signs of water in all the sections with oil often. When we spend a week on the Pacific Ocean I check every thing before we go and check again when we get home. Just do not want Salt water any place it does not belong.

Sounds like you got a real good deal.
Mine I bought new at the San Francisco boat show in Jan 1980.

 

[thannah84]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

That is my dream someday is to buy a brand new boat that way I can do all maintenance and know exactly what I have done to it....The boat I have now has had two previous owners and I don't know what they have or haven't replaced on it......I had to buy a Shift Assist Module that will work with the Pertronix Ignitor II....It is made by CDI...I will let you know how it installs and works when I get all the parts....I hope its worth all the trouble and money to convert...

 

[dodgeramsst2003]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

thannah84,

I know this thread is a few days old now, but I just saw it and thought I would weigh in. I fish lake erie also only on the other side ( western basin out of michigan) I have a 15hp johnson on a 15" bracket. Works well, only I have the opposite problem of the other poster. When going up on a wave, it will push the kicker partially underwater. Never had a problem with it coming out on anything I'll fish in Erie. I draw the line at 5 ftr's cause my boat is only 22ft. On the bouncing around issue, I pull my motor if I'm trailering, but I keep it at a marina so not very often. When running in the water, the stern of the boat actually has very little bounce to it. Sure You'll be bouncing around at the helm, but if you sit at the stern you hardly notice it. I have a safety cable attached to the motor and then to my stern eye, not only for theft prevention, but just in case it should ever come off the bracket. Just my two cents worth.

Chris

 

[thannah84]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

Got my bracket deliverd on Friday from Cabelas.....Installed on Saturday and It works very nice....Very sturdy...I am impressed...Goes down and comes up easy.....I am glad I ordered the heavy duty bracket(Garelick EZ-In offshore w/ 15.5" of travel) Although the hardware they gave me was not stainless and only 5/16"...I went up and size and got stainless.......Went out today and ran into a guy that I knew had a kicker and he ordered the cheap one and now regrets it after just a year...He says his is really flimsy and not sturdy at all....Thanks for all who chimed in!!!

 

[Boatist]

Re: Kicker bracket HELP!

Sounds like your did a good job.
One last point I did not mention is the prop.
On my 21 foot boat I have tried 4 props but three are really for when it was on my 14 foot boat.

On my 21 foot boat the best prop on my motor is 10 inches by 7 pitch with 4 blades.
It back up much better than the other props and also has great foward thrust.