Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

hot_wire

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Jan 22, 2009
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Just bought a pair of '97 Yamaha GP760's. The skis plus trailer weigh around 1500lbs. My problem is the tow rig - a SAAB 9-3 with plenty of power (rated to tow 3500lbs with brakes or 2000lbs without) but FWD! I just picture my front wheels spinning while the car sinks backwards into the water...

Here's my idea. Feel free to shoot it down. I'm considering reverse mounting a winch on the tongue of the trailer. With this setup, I could park the car on level ground above the ramp, and use the winch (along with the trailer's front swivel wheel) to pull the loaded trailer up the ramp and onto level ground. Is this possible? Couldn't find anyone else with this setup when I searched.

Thanks!
-New Seafarer
 

rtpassini

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Nov 27, 2008
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508
Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

how the hell is a saab 9-3 rated that high? weird....

not that im calling you a liar, but are you sure thats right. i just did some searching (i dont know what year you have) but the towing capacity for what you listed is turbo and awd.

you might want to double check.
 

hot_wire

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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

how the hell is a saab 9-3 rated that high? weird....

not that im calling you a liar, but are you sure thats right. i just did some searching (i dont know what year you have) but the towing capacity for what you listed is turbo and awd.

you might want to double check.

http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/Specs-t28715-2002-9-3-SE.html

Mine's an 01, but there were no changes between the 02 and 01 years. Also, the old body 9-3's were FWD only. I will double check my manual but those numbers (2000 unbraked and 3500 braked) are all around the SAAB forums.

People that have towed with SAABs always mention ramp traction issues. Any feedback on my winch plan?
 

J JACKSON

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 7, 2008
Messages
180
Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

why not have a small Reece hitch on the front of it and swap the trailer around before you launch. i had a friend that did that on a old range rover so it was easier to get his boat in the water but i don't see why it wouldn't work for you
 

woosterken

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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

mite want to drop down to stupuid human tricks,and read "ramp ettiquete"
that is going to take some time to drag it up the ramp,unhook it and then turn car around to hook up again

lot of UNHAPPY boaters waiting to launch or load!!

woosterken
 

J JACKSON

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 7, 2008
Messages
180
Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

mite want to drop down to stupuid human tricks,and read "ramp ettiquete"
that is going to take some time to drag it up the ramp,unhook it and then turn car around to hook up again

lot of UNHAPPY boaters waiting to launch or load!!

i would hope you would be smart enough to back it all the way to the parking area to unhitch and turn the car around. i wouldn't want to do it on the ramp anyway it could roll back into the water
 

hot_wire

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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

No plans to put a front hitch on the car. If it had to come to that, I would just borrow the neighbor's truck. My plan was the mount the winch to the trailer and then put the winch's hook on the car's hitch. I was thinking that I would crank the winch while walking (guiding) the trailer up to the car.

I'll check stupid human tricks. Don't want to end up as a story there!

On level ground, the trailer is easy for one person to maneuver and it's not too hard to hand lift the tongue.
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

First, I don't think that you have the right vehicle for the job. Coming up with a "work-around" is certainly possible, but I doubt you will find it to be a satisfactory situation. And, as others have mentioned, all the folks who will have to wait for you to go through all sorts of hooking, unhooking, winch deployment & retreival, chocking, fighting with a trailer tongue dolly that is free floating, and will want get stuck or go its own way with every bump in the ramp, will not be amused. You could also snap the tongue dolly off quite easily.

With all of this in mind, my guess is that you would try this arrangement about a half dozen times, before you would become unhappy with it.

But, assuming that you want to try it, think about the investment. Since the actual weight of your trailer and jetskis is about 1,500 pounds, and you need to account for a margin of safety, you will need a Class II (3,500 lbs) receiver hitch for your car. That will cost you about $150 - $200 without installation. With installation, it will be about $300.

You will also need an ATV winch of about 2,500 to 3,000 pounds capacity. There are manufacturers (Warn, for one), who make ATV winches of lesser capacity, but they tend to drop from 2,500 lbs down to 1,500 lbs, which isn't suitable, because it offers no margin of safety given your load. This is why I specified a Class II hitch rather than a Class I (2,000 lbs) hitch. This winch will cost you about $250 to $450, at least for a decent one. You will also have to buy a multimount bracket with a drawbar. Cost for this is likely to be about $100 to $150.

Next on the list will be wiring. If you need to have it done by someone else, plan on a minimum of $100.

So, now we are at a minimum of $500, if you buy the cheapest gear and do all of the installation yourself. If you buy better quality and have pros put it all together, your cost will be about $1,000.

I think that if you consider all of this, the potential for spending a bunch of money that you will end up regretting, is high. If it were my choice to make, I'd go on a hunt for an old S10 or Toyota pickup that is mechanically sound, even if it did have a "terminal case of the uglies." These vehicles can be picked up for very little and aren't that expensive to insure/operate, if they are only used for weekend trips to the ramp.


PS: If you mount a winch on the trailer, you will have to either mount a large battery to the trailer also, or run a cable to the car. Since a winch will tend to draw a fair amount of power, plan on buying a good sized battery at about $80 to $120. To me, powering off the car is a better choice, because you can leave it running to lessen draw from the battery. If you do this, however, consult an electrician or some other knowledgable person, in order to determine correct wire size - a long cable run to power a winch is going to result in resistance issues, if you don't go to a high enough guage.
 
Last edited:

hot_wire

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Jan 22, 2009
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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

First, I don't think that you have the right vehicle for the job. Coming up with a "work-around" is certainly possible, but I doubt you will find it to be a satisfactory situation. And, as others have mentioned, all the folks who will have to wait for you to go through all sorts of hooking, unhooking, winch deployment & retreival, chocking, fighting with a trailer tongue dolly that is free floating, and ill want get stuck, or go its own way with every bump in the ramp, will not be amused. You could also snap that tongue dolly off quite easily.

With all of this in mind, my guess is that you would try this arrangement about a half dozen times before you would become unhappy with it.

But, assuming that you want to try it, think about the investment. Since the actual weight of your trailer and jetskis is about 1,500 pounds, and you need to account for a margin of safety, you will need a Class II (3,500 lbs) receiver hitch for your car. That will cost you about $150 - $200 without installation. With installation, it will be about $300.

You will also need an ATV winch of about 2,500 to 3,000 pound capacity. There are manaufacturers (Warn, for one), who make ATV winches of lesser capacity, but they tend to drop from 2,500 lbs down to 1,500 lbs, which isn't suitable because it offeres no margin of safety, given your load. This is why I specified a Class II hitch rather than a Class I hitch. This winch will cost you about $250 to $450, at least for a decent one. You will also have to buy a multimount bracket with a drawbar. Cost for this is likely to be about $100 to $150.

Next on the list will be wiring. If need to have it done by someone else, plan on a minimum of $100.

So, now we are at a minimum of $500 if you buy the cheapest gear and do all of the installation yourself. If you buy better quality and have pros put it all together, your cost will be about $1,000.

I think that if you consider all of this, the potential for spending a bunch of money that you will end up regretting, is high. If it were my choice to make, I'd go on a hunt for an old S10 or Toyota pickup that is mechanically sound, if if it did have a "terminal case of the uglies." These vehicles can be picked up for very little and aren't that expensive to insure/operate if they are only used for weekend trips to the ramp.

This was exactly the advice I needed to hear. The prices really add up when you spell it out. I'd love to get into an old wrangler or junker pickup, but garage space just isn't going to cut it and I really can't part with my convertible. Might just rely on friends to launch and retrieve my skis until something pops up. I had no intention of becoming a boat owner until I saw the price on these skis, and I'll probably end up selling them for a profit sometime next year.

Thanks for setting me straight! Experience > outlandish ideas
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

OK. See my PS, as well.

If you think you would consider a nice SUV, you might want to go look at new ones or late model used vehicles. Some of them are very nice and very "sporty." Considering that car dealers are practically giving vehicles away these days, you might be able to work out a very attractive deal and trade the Saab in as a part of that.
 

reelfishin

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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

I think the biggest problem you will have is traction on some ramps.
Back in the mid 80's I had a 15' Grumman Champ, about 1200lbs total with trailer.
At that time, I had a company vehicle, which happened to be a Dodge Caravan, nothing special, just a plain old bare bones Caravan. It already had a hitch on the back bumper, it was put there to tow portable signs around, I figured that it would work for my boat. It did just fine towing it on the road, it really didn't affect the truck at all, but when I tried to launch it, I got stuck everytime on the ramp. It wouldn't even pull the empty trailer up the ramp, it would just sit there and burn one tire on the slick ramp. However, it did fine at smaller lakes where there was no paved ramp. It was the slick, steeper, paved ramps that it had trouble with. I gave up on using that for the most part and got the company to get me a Jeep Cherokee Limited, which did fine, just because it was rear drive. I don't think I ever needed to use 4x4 at the ramp.

The big thing is getting traction to the front wheels, forget it if the ramp is wet or slippery with silt or mud. What usually happened when I did use that van was several guys had to sit on the front bumper or hang on the fender to give it more traction, not a pretty scene but it got it moving.
 

slasmith1

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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

it's my understanding that the EPA will require you to retrieve your Saab after it goes in the water.
 

Backyardhockey

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Jun 2, 2008
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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

I used to use a Buick Park Ave (fwd) towing a much heavier load (18' I/O on a steel trailer). Never a problem at the ramp. Light foot is the key to keep traction. Always funny to be next to a hummer with a light load. Better than my friends F150 rwd cause my drive tires were never in slime. Try it the first time on a weekday. Buy a towstrap just in case. Bring a "healthy eater" along as a hood ornament? As others have said a beater SUV could be dirt cheap.
 

HappierWet

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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

GEEZ, until Jay spelled it out I had a vision of a guy using a hand crank boat winch to pull the trailer to a parked car at the top of the ramp. Yeah, I was thinking Stupid Human Tricks! By the way has anyone noticed the acronym for that forum is S.H.T. ? Which is what most of them are in at that point. lol:D
 

hot_wire

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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

GEEZ, until Jay spelled it out I had a vision of a guy using a hand crank boat winch to pull the trailer to a parked car at the top of the ramp. Yeah, I was thinking Stupid Human Tricks! By the way has anyone noticed the acronym for that forum is S.H.T. ? Which is what most of them are in at that point. lol:D

Unfortunately, that WAS the idea :eek: except I was planning to use an electric ATV winch. At this point, I'm going to give it one try normally with the SAAB - making sure that a friend's truck is nearby. If that doesn't work, I might trade in the convertible (tragedy) or just use the skis really infrequently (whenever I rent a truck).
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

There are a number of issues that may explain the lack of ramp traction for a Saab 9-3 convertible. First, its overall weight is about 500 - 700 pounds less than many domestic FWD cars. It also has a smaller engine and transmission, particularly if it is equipped with the 4 cylinder engine, rather than the 2.8 litre V6. This means that there is less weight over the drive wheels. Finally, the car is about 10 inches shorter than many domestic FWD vehicles, resulting in less of a fulcrum to take advantage of whatever weight is available at the front end.

There is no doubt that the Saab 9-3 is a great car and a fun car, but it just isn't in its element as a tow vehicle.
 

hubbard53

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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

i zam trying to imagine the feeling in your stomach as you try to pull your boat out and you jsut sit and spin, or worse, slide backwards. :eek:

makes me nauseous thinking about it.
 

hot_wire

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Jan 22, 2009
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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

i zam trying to imagine the feeling in your stomach as you try to pull your boat out and you jsut sit and spin, or worse, slide backwards. :eek:

makes me nauseous thinking about it.
I pictured that same scenario, so I'll make sure to have a few friends, tire chocks, and a large truck nearby for the first attempt.
 

hubbard53

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Re: Can I retreive it? FWD on Ramp

I pictured that same scenario, so I'll make sure to have a few friends, tire chocks, and a large truck nearby for the first attempt.

what makes me really feel ill is that i didnt even think about it at all while backing my boat down the ramp last year for the first time.

there a benefits of a positive karma bank
 
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