Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

Mark42

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I believe that the cost of fuel will remain high in the forseeable future, the economy will be very slow to recover, and the boating industry will have a lot of high dollar, expensive to own and maintain merchandise that they can not unload.

I was hoping that eventually something would cause some manufacturers to go back to the pocket cruisers popular in the 60's and early 70's. That way I could pick one up used in a few years that suits my needs.

I was looking at some of the brands of boats that Brunswick owns that I never heard of. Some really cool boats are sold in other contries that I would love to see at a domestic dealer. Check these out:

Flipper Boats (sorry I can't link in their photos direclty) makes this neat midship cabin bow rider: http://www.flipperboats.fi/Gb/Mallisto/630cc?picId=490&showPictures=true

http://www.flipperboats.fi/gb/Mallisto/520ht?picId=486&showPictures=true

How about this "Weekender" by ?rnvik:

bo$orn$fweekend$635fwee.jpg


Or this Cruiser:

bo$orn$fcruiser$510fcr.jpg


Brunswick also owns Uttern. They make some neat cabin boats like this 6.2 meter:
bo$utt$fcab$c56.jpg


This one is a little larger at 6.9 meters, but really cool nonetheless:
bo$utt$fcab$c66.jpg


I'm not a big fan of bow riders because they never offer any protection from the elements. Now that I see now well a midship cabin works with a bow rider design, I really like the concept. You get sun and wind protection with inside seating, helm, and often sleeping accomodations, bow rider seating, and aft deck open area. Maybe my next project will be to modify a 19ft bow rider into a midship cabin weekender. Has some possabilities, no?

The complete access from bow to stern of the two Uttern boats really impressed me. Think of how easy it is to anchor the 6.9 meter boat. Get up from the helm in the cabin, walk through the windshield to the bow seating and drop the anchor from the anchor pulpit. Then walk back to helm, backup the boat, then walk to the stern and drop the second anchor. No climbing through windshields or hatches to get to the bow like in Cuddy Cabins, just walk and maybe duck a bit for low overhead areas. Works for me. Plus if you have kids, you can let them play up front while you and the wife hang out in the rear deck.

It seems to me that if Brunswick wanted to add some smaller cabin/cruisers to the American market, they already have these boats developed. They just need to bring the molds here and start pumping them out.

I found it very interesting to browse the Uttern and ?rnvik websites to see how other contries think and design their boats. They are very neat, clean designs, often with removable cusions on molded in seats for simplicity. I got a few ideas for mods to my own boat from seeing their designs for smaller boats.
 

SnappingTurtle

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

I hope so. At the moment, if want this type of boat you have to buy used from the 50's, 60's, and 70's.
 

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ziggy

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

I'm not a big fan of bow riders because they never offer any protection from the elements.
i hear that. + once ya do have a hardtop. i don't know what the next boat would be. these types of boats yer showing here would fill the bill. i agree, mfg.'s do need to pick up the pace on making these types of smaller crusiers. it seems snappingturtle is about right to me. ya gotta go back in time to be hip....
 

sundowner205

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Jun 18, 2008
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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

I do see your point, however, I have to say, around here [North Shore of E. Long Island], the boats that sell the best are the larger ones. At any of the numerous marinas/boatyards in this area the dealers have the same 15-22 ft bow riders & cuddys that they had a year ago - they just don't move. The larger cruisers/cabrio's seem to be on the lot for maybe a couple of months at most, then they disappear and I see them at the one of the various slips, moorings, or boat clubs in the area.

It seems here the demand is for bigger.

Those are some cool looking boats though!
 

Lou C

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

I like the small cruiser design, in preference to a cuddy because the headroom in the cabin is better, big windows and not claustrophobic feeling, I wish someone here made on in 21' range, that could be adequately powered by a single 150 hp outboard or 200 hp sterndrive. I have considered going up in size for the next boat, but then you get into a whole bigger range of expenses, can't store it in my driveway ($$) need bigger tow vehicle ($$) uses more fuel ($$) etc. However, I know what Sundowner 205 says is true here in LI, most people look at the minimum size to be comfortable in the Sound as around 25 feet or so, you can get big water there at almost anytime, and smaller boats will stay close to shore...size does limit where you can go here.
Given the ecomomics, for me I am going to look for the most seaworthy 20-21 foot boat I can find, that will address the safety issues and keep the costs reasonable.
 

Mark42

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

These boats are built in Sweden, so they are designed for colder climates where they need the weather protection to extend their boating season. Also, the water they boat on is often very rough so these boats are more stout than you may think. Notice high freeboard on all these models, they can handle big water. Also notice they don't use much carpet, and when they do, its usually a snap down piece over gel coat floors.

2365d9ec7f.jpg


This one has a cool bow rail. Doesn't look too strong, but is sure does look cool....

86f0641216.jpg
 

SnappingTurtle

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

A lot of the smaller stateside cabin cruisers we have looked at seem to built like either country campers (RV's) from the style, or cheap 1970's discos. :eek: You have to go way up into the $100's before they take all the tacky crap out. That is one of the things you don't see anymore in the European built boats. Nice, well designed, modern, robust, easy to clean, functional interiors are standard here.

If Airstream can do it, so can the U.S. boat manufactures. :D

airstream-international-signature-series-27-fb-ccd-travel-trailer-interior-2007-2.jpg


airstream-international-signature-series-27-fb-ccd-travel-trailer-interior-2007-1.jpg
 

mthieme

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Oct 6, 2007
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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

Depends what you call smaller. What I've noticed is that a few newbies to the neighborhood who have talked about getting a boat are holding off. Two want something for their families (20' +/-). One moved in just for the water, so I'm curious to see what he's going to do...he's a loner so he could easily go small.
It's also evolutionary for the 'family boat' to migrate to bigger more comfortable models over time. I don't see this happening.
I think the used market will get a boost. Similar to cars in a poor economy, people will go cheap or make what they have last a couple/few more years.
Personally, I fell into a 14' skiff this season that I've been using the heck out of over my Searay. This was mainly due to convenience as I think the fuel consumption is almost a wash. I was spending around $90 a week on fuel this summer.
 

Mark42

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

If you look at the Sea Ray and Bayliner Discovery line (both Brunswick owned) you will notice the trend toward complex one piece molded hull liners, rather than the hollow hull that has been finished with plywood structures like in the past. I wonder if they took some ideas from their European cousins. The Discovery line is looking really great with snap in carpets over gel coat floors, or the vinyl flooring. Integrated features molded right in really make for a nice finished look.

Too bad I really can't afford a brand new boat. Some are getting really irresistible.
 

SnappingTurtle

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

If you look at the Sea Ray and Bayliner Discovery line (both Brunswick owned) you will notice the trend toward complex one piece molded hull liners, rather than the hollow hull that has been finished with plywood structures like in the past. I wonder if they took some ideas from their European cousins. The Discovery line is looking really great with snap in carpets over gel coat floors, or the vinyl flooring. Integrated features molded right in really make for a nice finished look.

Too bad I really can't afford a brand new boat. Some are getting really irresistible.

I really need to get back and visit one of the big boat shows again. But I am afraid if I do, I will have to sell the house to satisfy my addiction. :eek:
 

mthieme

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

I noticed the Euro styling has taking hold. Boats have become more maintenance free and with the features you mention, etc.
I too can't afford anything new...my newest boat is from the early 70's.
I'm starting to think out my retirement. I've had visions of a 15' Boston Whaler Sport...they run under $20K turnkey right now which seems cheap considering it's hard to find anything less than $2K a foot (new).
 

Mark42

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

In a few more years all the old 70's through 90's simple boats with plywood floors over stringers are going to be GONE! Then what will we have to custom rebuild???

Whats going to be involved with a restore on a late model boat with no wood stringers or wood transom?
 

ziggy

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

Whats going to be involved with a restore on a late model boat with no wood stringers or wood transom?
i like that idea..... but since i have a 70's model boat, w/o stringers or a wood transom (as advertised). (though from inspection i'll say i got a small piece of wood right where the drive attaches) i'll say foam. :rolleyes:
 
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ylop

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Oct 12, 2008
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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

i can see you blokes over in the U.S. really go for the glass boats but here in oz a fishing boat has to be alloy like the fisher a mate of mine has its a hard top with all the fruit and at 5.8mts plenty big enough for a trip to the shelf with a 115 yammy 4stroke it makes 35nts at wot, here is the link to the boat he has on the fisher sight have a look and see what u think.
http://www.fisherboats.com.au/data/580.html
 

reelfishin

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

I actually also prefer this style boat, it's why I hunted down and bought my '68 Starchief. It's not really a mid cabin boat thought. I like having a smaller boat that can provide some weather protection as well as still run fairly affordably. I like the aluminum boats for their lower weight and ease of repair.
As far a a trend towards smaller boat, I haven't seen that as of yet, those that can afford a new boat, aren't as affected by the downturn economically. Those who can't afford a new boat, probably most of us here, may very well stay with smaller boats. I am sure sales are down but those who can afford new, will still buy a new boat by choice not for it's economy.

A smaller boat won't always save you big money in fuel, it will always depend on the set up you have. All of my boats run pretty close when it comes to fuel usage with the Starchief being the heaviest drinker on windy days or when fully loaded, but the difference is minor. I do like smaller boats for their ease of handling and simplicity. I'd love to find a small pilot house style boat for winter fishing but have yet to stumble on one.
My plans for the Starchief are to add a new soft enclosure for year round use.
This combined with the ability to step inside and get completely out of the weather would make it perfect.
 

ziggy

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

This combined with the ability to step inside and get completely out of the weather would make it perfect
1975


open, vertical sliding center window panel for varied ram air...

IMG_1586.jpg


kinda closed, nice weather up at the helm running this way. leaves any cool weather behind.....

MissouriRiver09_16_07_43.jpg


enclosed

IMG_3335.jpg


from the inside after boating in the rain for about 3 or 4 hours. out of the weather and nice and dry at the helm. i confess, a few drips after being in the rain that long, not at the helm though. at the canvas conection... :D

the mfgs need to get back onto these types of most versitle boats....
 

reelfishin

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

1975


open, vertical sliding center window panel for varied ram air...

IMG_1586.jpg


kinda closed, nice weather up at the helm running this way. leaves any cool weather behind.....

MissouriRiver09_16_07_43.jpg


enclosed

IMG_3335.jpg


from the inside after boating in the rain for about 3 or 4 hours. out of the weather and nice and dry at the helm. i confess, a few drips after being in the rain that long, not at the helm though. at the canvas conection... :D

the mfgs need to get back onto these types of most versitle boats....

There's a boat similar to that for sale near here in NJ.
http://southjersey.craigslist.org/boa/837492980.html
I went to look at it but it's more than my small truck can tow. Otherwise I'd have bought it. The seller even has a new motor to go with it and lots of spare parts. If I didn't have my Starcraft 18' Starchief, I'd have to really consider it. I was surprised to see a boat that old, that clean, it looks like it just popped out of a time machine.
 

SnappingTurtle

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

As has already been mentioned, the bigger the boat, the bigger the non-use connected expenditures.

The people we know with 30+ footers in the States don't hardly ever take them out of the slip. They have just become harbor ornaments. The people we know in Europe that upsized their boat in the last ten years, are no-longer in their boats. They outsized their budget. Their boat related cost exploded, while their disposable income, disappeared.

We like to boat year round, rainy days included, and a little weather protection is needed for that. I have always been that way. I think boats are too expensive to just use in the summer months. Two boats is the ultimate solution, both filling a specific purpose, but storage and cost then become a problem. We are changing what we once considered to be the ultimate solution to our needs, as the worlds economy changes. For us bigger is not better, and too small, limits our season & the waters we can boat on.

At the top of the market, the mega yachts are still selling in Europe. The disposable income of the upper 5% has not been reduced, it has grown, it is the middle class that has been eradicated.

10 years ago, Germany had the strongest middle class of all 21 industrial nations. They are now, according to a just released this week, government study, holding the very last place.

America is following this trend at a fast pace, and just as in Germany, seems to be frozen in a "state of denial" of this reality.

The manufactures have to accept this situation. They are going to have to adjust their product range to reflect this, or they are not going to be selling any of their products. At least not to the middle class.
 

ziggy

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

At least not to the middle class.
there won't be a middle class, just rich and poor. the poor can't afford a new boat. but if they could, these new crusisers mark42 posted up would be perfect. other than that, that's why we have to shop for old boats like the one reelfishin posted up. what a find. that was the transition boat for aristocraft. made for 1 year inbetween the funliner and the nineteen which had a 10 year run. so that 8teen, is very rare i'd think. some one on the board should go snap that one up.....
 

SnappingTurtle

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Re: Will the economy encourage a return to smaller boats?

I wish I was closer. :(
 

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