Starters Marine vs Auto

[gussie]

We finally got the starter out of the Mercruiser Chevy 350 I/O. It wasn't easy! We took it to the nearest auto parts supplier to get them to check, since it would not turn the engine over.

They couldn't get their testing machine to work. I told them that our starter was a 1984, I think, so they suggested they would get a rebuilt one out and check it. The machine still failed to show either one was working.

This rebuilt starter looked exactly like the one we just removed from the Mercruiser 350. I wonder how much difference there really is between the marine and the auto?

I know that we don't need sparks under the engine cover, however I fail to see how these two starters are different. Can someone educate me.

 

[achris]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

If it doesn't have a plate on it with the marine standard number, then it's not marine , it's not legal to use it in a boat, and it is potentially dangerous... If you do use it and something happens, even if it doesn't have anything to do with the starter, your insurance will be void and you will probably be prosecuted.

Is it worth the risk?

Chris.......

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

There are screens in the marine starters, to keep sparks from escaping.

It's basically just a bunch of legal butt covering, for the most part. But if you use Automotive parts in your boat, you might as well not even carry insurance on it. They won't pay out.

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

Also just a splash of salt water will kill a auto starter.

 

[turborich]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

My friend has used automotive starters & alternators on his boat without any issues. What about the jet boats? They seem to have regular automotive big blocks with open headers & blowers. I'm sure that not everything is marine.

I understand the facts of the marine stuff being the best & safest, but the prices would lean me towards autozone.

 

[achris]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

....I understand the facts of the marine stuff being the best & safest, but the prices would lean me towards autozone.

And the 'no insurance' zone....

Just what is your life worth? If you use automotive electrical an fuel system parts, just to save a few hundred dollars, that's what you are saying your life is worth....

Boat explosions happen.. people die... it's real.... I have investigated a few... Usually it's something stupid like a wire from a pump rubbed through on a rib or something like that, but I have seen automotive parts on boat engines... Believe me, it's deadly dangerous....

Chris........

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

Were those geniuses running their blowers?

I'm sure they always answer, "yes".

But I wonder how many of these explosions would have been avoided by following the simple rule of running your blowers for 5 min. before starting, and the whole time you're running.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. Just honestly trying to find out if these basic safety rules were followed.

As you mentioned, there are PLENTY of other possible ignition sources, even when using Marine approved parts. Especially in some of those older boats!

So what's the scoop? Blowers being used properly when these incidents happen?

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

Also just a splash of salt water will kill a auto starter.

Salt water will kill ANY starter.

There are plenty of truck starters that end up under water all the time...

Marine starters are not impervious to water, in the least!

 

[cmyers_uk]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

I know somebody who smoked till they were 107 then got hit by a bus. So what people do stupid things all the time and get away with it, then sometimes they dont.

Maybe you will be out on the water and your blowers broken, unfortunately it was the same time the carb leaked fuel and kerboom you car starter created the spark that did the damage.

Its your choice if you want to do things on the cheap or do things properly but you know the risks. Good Luck with whatever you choose , just dont moor alongside me

 

[45Auto]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

Here in the US it's covered by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) standards, SAE J1171 External Ignition Protection of Marine Electrical Devices, which the Coast Gaurd regs require marine components to conform to.

This thread had some pretty good descriptions:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=228130

"A proper marine starter is sealed at both ends,has rubber coated or (varnished) field coils,brass terminals(not copper) and is painted inside as well as outside.If you look into the drive end housing,there should be a plate that carries a seal to seperate the bendix from the rest of the starter.There should be a rubber gasket between the solenoid and the housing and the solenoid cover should be gasketed as well."

"In an enclosed engine compartment where volatile fumes exist, any stray spark could cause a catastrophic explosion injuring or killing the boat's passengers and any surrounding people. In order to prevent this, a marine starter is constructed with internal shielding to contain any sparks or stray electricity that could travel into the bell housing or bilge where gasoline fumes may be present. Another benefit from this shielding is that it protects the back half of the starter motor from moisture and contaminants which will decrease the life of the unit. If the replacement starter you are buying does not have a tag or sticker on it that states it has been manufactured to SAE J1171 standards, you should ask the parts man if the product really is an approved marine grade starter. Make every attempt to be sure that you are not being sold an automotive starter for your boat. To receive this certification, the manufacturer of this starter must submit a sample to pass three separate tests; each performed fifty times. The tests include operation in an enclosed explosive atmosphere, high temperature tests and induced ignition tests."

If you want to risk blowing yourself up with an automotive starter, all I ask is that you please not tie up next to my boat! Kind of the same situation as if you want to play Russian Roulette (one loaded chamber in a revolver, spin the cylinder, point it at your head and pull the trigger), just make sure nobody else is in line with your head.

Take a close look at your family and friends and make your own decision if they're worth the extra $50 to $75 for a marine starter.

 

[mkast]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

I'm sure that not everything is marine.

Was this statement made because of your extensive research OR because you "THINK?"

 

[mthieme]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

My friend has used automotive starters & alternators on his boat without any issues. What about the jet boats? They seem to have regular automotive big blocks with open headers & blowers. I'm sure that not everything is marine.

I understand the facts of the marine stuff being the best & safest, but the prices would lean me towards autozone.

My best friend has a jet boat with an automotive 454 in it. He knows better, but we usually go through a couple engines per season. We blow up the motor before any of the parts have a chance to go bad! (This is what you call fun). This rig has lasted two seasons so far. Anywho, he put four (auto) starters on the first year. Once they get wet, they are done...especially the solenoid.

Autozone rebuild auto start $29.95...rebuild marine $99.95.
I think he would have been saved money and time using a marine starter from the git go.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

My friend has used automotive starters & alternators on his boat without any issues. What about the jet boats? They seem to have regular automotive big blocks with open headers & blowers. I'm sure that not everything is marine.

I understand the facts of the marine stuff being the best & safest, but the prices would lean me towards autozone.

Oh, good. How about putting a big warning sign on your boat, then? Something like:

WARNING!!! This boat may be unsafe, due to non-marine-rated parts on the engine. Board at your own risk. Owner too cheap to care about your safety.

 

[gussie]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

WOW! Thanks to all of you for this boat saving, life saving education.

Now, can someone please tell me where, in Maryland, I can have this starter MARINE rebuilt for $99.95? Autozone?

Autozone rebuild auto start $29.95...rebuild marine $99.95.
I think he would have been saved money and time using a marine starter from the git go.

 

[mylesm260]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

Part of the problem with boats, is 99% of them are carbruated.

I would argue that a carb is far more dangerous than EFI because of the float bowl.

I've only been involved with boats for a couple years now, and already I've seen two carbs with leaking floats, and as a result, they were pissing fuel into the bilge.

EFI uses a completely sealed fuel system. While it's still posible for leaks to occur, chances are, if you do have any problems with your fuel system, your boat simply won't run. Where as with a carb, you could have a tiny hole in one of your floats and not know it, until you already smell gas, at which point, the danger is already there. Marine aproved parts or not, there is still the risk of explosion. (mind you the risk is much lower with marine approved parts)


I'm running an automotive EFI system (2001 vertec 4.3 out of an astro-van) and I Feel much safter knowing I don't have 500 mls of fuel sitting on top of my engine at all times that could easily start pissing out if a little copper float develops a leak.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

Call 386-307-2228
$59 + $15 shipping

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

Ebay has your starter, db electrical i bought a few for me and friends from him.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

You can get a new MARINE starter here for around 100 bucks..ebasicpower.com
It will take 2 days to ship to Maryland...at the most.

http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/mm5/apps...l=0A635178-OK0015206&brand=MERCRUISER&pv=&fd=

 

[mkast]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

I've only been involved with boats for a couple years now, and already I've seen two carbs with leaking floats, and as a result, they were pissing fuel into the bilge.

I wonder how much maintenance these two carburetors received?
I read somewhere that it took Americans to turn "maintenance" into a four letter word.

 

[turborich]

Re: Starters Marine vs Auto

Was this statement made because of your extensive research OR because you "THINK?"

What I was trying to say was that on the jet type boats with the big blocks, I doubt if every part is a marine part. Those engines are for the most part big block chevy's & the accessories & other parts for a chevy performance engine are very abundant. Do you think that all of those parts are actually marine parts? I know guys who have several boats like this as well as several cars/trucks with the same engines. I'm not saying that it's correct but those parts do get tossed around on the boats & cars.

Anyways, I'm not trying to tell anyone that they should use auto parts on a boat. You should use the marine stuff. I personally just don't see the harm if the engine area is properly ventilated. There are plenty of cars that have leaky carburetors or disconted evap hoses under the hood & the starter doesn't ignite them.

Should you use marine parts? YES The blower is there for a reason though. how many people actually use it? I have been out on a few of my friends boats & have never seen them turn the blower on at all. It seems like it is forgotten about.