Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

[jkust]

Hi all, I am upgrading my old Bayliner with an outboard to my first boat with an I/O. I am looking at a 4 year old Four Winns 180 with the 4.3 Volvo Penta MPI 225 HP set up used only in fresh water. I understand it is nice but it has 250 hours on the meter. The owner says he has had no problems at all and has not done any maintenance or repair except winterization and oil /fluid changes. I want the MPI version in my next boat but just don't know if i should consider this unit or not. There are almost no boats on the market now much less the MPI version to choose from. The owner just did not understand the concern with that many hours. There are usually many more 4.3 carb options with less than 50 hours at most at a similar price. I have never seen such a new smaller type boat with so many hours and am a little gun shy.

Any advice or suggestions to help decide. FYI the asking price is $17,000 usd.

Thank you,

-Allan

 

[Bondo]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

Ayuh,....

A 4.3l, just like Any other Chevy motor, will easily last well over 2500hrs,....
If Properly Maintained ......

A Compression Test, is Much More Valuable than an Hour Meter, in used boat buying.....
If a Compression Test,+ a Boat Ride are required mandatory input for buying a boat,....

I'd skip the Boat Ride, before missing out on a Compression Test.....

 

[jkust]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

Ayuh,....

A 4.3l, just like Any other Chevy motor, will easily last well over 2500hrs,....
If Properly Maintained ......

A Compression Test, is Much More Valuable than an Hour Meter, in used boat buying.....
If a Compression Test,+ a Boat Ride are required mandatory input for buying a boat,....

I'd skip the Boat Ride, before missing out on a Compression Test.....

Any idea what psi the compression should be on this engine? Is the test as simple as pulling each plug one by one and turning the engine over?

 

[Don S]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

Here is how you do a compression test.

http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/97/97_25.pdf

 

[Don S]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

You can also take the boat to a Volvo dealer, they can hook up a diagnostic computer to the engine and tell you EXACTLY how many hours on the engine, and how many hours at what rpms.

 

[mtnrat]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

You can also take the boat to a Volvo dealer, they can hook up a diagnostic computer to the engine and tell you EXACTLY how many hours on the engine, and how many hours at what rpms.

That is cool.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

You know what 60 hours a summer isn't alot of hours.

I don't know where you live but in hot climates boats get used alot more.

He have records of what was done to the boat?

Whats a brand new boat cost like the one your looking at?

If it were me and i had the money i would buy the carbed version with 50 hours on it.

I didn't know volvo has a carbed version.

One last thing thats alot of power for that size boat.

With a 3.0 you would be doing 40+. Burn alot less gas also. With the price of fuel it's got to be a concern for all of us.

Good luck welcome aboard!

 

[45Auto]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

Average use is about 50 engine hours a year. 260 hours is not bad at all, especially if you're in a southern state with a longer boating season. As was said earlier, maintenance and usage will be much bigger factors in engine condition than hours.

I wouldn't worry much about the fuel usage difference between a 4.3 and a 3.0. The 4.3 will burn about 1/2 gallon per hour more than the 3.0 with light loads. You put 3 or 4 people in the boat, pull a tube or some kneeboarders, they're probably about even. The 63% more power in the 4.3 will make it a much more enjoyable boat. Even if it does burn 1/2 gallon/hour more, if you use it 50 hours a year that's 25 gallons extra per year, or $100 at $4/gallon gas. If you are so close on budget that $100/year is significant to you than you probably shouldn't be messing with a boat!

Chart below was made from "Boattest.com" tests of a 3.0 and 4.3 Four Winns:

 

[jkust]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

You know what 60 hours a summer isn't alot of hours.

He have records of what was done to the boat?

Whats a brand new boat cost like the one your looking at?

One last thing thats alot of power for that size boat.
QUOTE]

Well, he has the records for the simple fluid changes. I guestimate the same model new would run in the upper 20's and that is conservative since they don't even offer an MPI option anymore on the 180. That is MSRP though so realistically end of season up north here low 20's real world pricing...add in the mpi and mid 20's.

I am actually suprised that a MPI v6 will only push this boat near 50. You can get that out of a cheeper Stingray with a 4 cylinder or almost that in a Bayliner 4 banger.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

I don't know about that graph. Never saw a 3.0 burn more than 16 gph. And thats with doing wot for hours at a time.

Now 5-6 gph is what a 3.0 on a 19' Bayliner is what in my experience will be burned.

Now the question of ease of maintenance, 2 heads, 2 risers, 2 manifolds, all going to be replaced sooner or later.

It's your money use it when you want to.

Good luck and welcome aboard!

 

[45Auto]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

I don't know about that graph. Never saw a 3.0 burn more than 16 gph.

If you look at the graph, you'll see that the 3.0 only burns 13 GPH at WOT. At cruising speeds of 25-30 MPH both engines burn around 5-6 GPH.

Can't help you with whether you believe it or not, the numbers came from Boattest.com, their tests have been dead accurate in the performance of both my boats.

I am actually suprised that a MPI v6 will only push this boat near 50. You can get that out of a cheeper Stingray with a 4 cylinder or almost that in a Bayliner 4 banger.

I think you'll find that the Four Winns is a heavier, "nicer" boat than the Stingray or Bayliner. Kind of like comparing a Cadillac and a Chevy with the same engine. If speed is an important factor you probably shouldn't be looking at 4 cylinders or V6's.

 

[superpop]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

I like to use the car analogy, I know it is a bit flawed since the conditions and wear rates are probably a bit different but if you think about it, a car driving 50MPH for 250 hours is 12,500 miles, now would you worry about buy a car with that many miles. I will take a boat with higher hours over an older boat with really low hours any day, the ones that sit on a trailer baking in the sun their whole life are the ones you typically have problems with such as dried out and leaking seals and gaskets etc.

 

[jkust]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

, the ones that sit on a trailer baking in the sun their whole life are the ones you typically have problems with such as dried out and leaking seals and gaskets etc.

That is a good point. Many of the boats that I see may only be a few years old but you hit it on the head. That is the reason they have such low hours...they never got used. Now could a garage stored boat's outdrive and engine components really dry out in a few years with it being used only minimal hours per year? I could see it with say a 7+ year old boat that just sat.

As for gas, not sure how it got brought up but at least at the onset I am not too concerned about gas usage. If I was I would find a different hobby plus I doubt any of these modern engines uses as much as an the old two stroke on my Bayliner. I took a look at the Four Winns site and the 180 with the Volvo GXI will go 50 - 52 MPH while the Mercruiser MPI is rated up to 53mph and that is with 5 less HP. Not sure why that is. I think the graph up top uses the 190 Horizon with the GXI to the 180 four cylinder.

 

[mtnrat]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

Do not let miniscule published performance differences throw you from the volvo. They are the toyota-lexus of the outdrives.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

The graph uses the H190 with the 225HP 4.3L Volvo GXi, and the H180 with the 135HP 3.0 with a Volvo GL, both from the Boattest website. Closest Four Winns I could find.

If speed is an issue look at some real world test results. Maybe the factory tests with 1 person and a couple of gallons of gas. According to Boattest, the 180 topped out at 42 and the 190 did 45. 2 people in the boat, 1/3 tank of fuel, NO coolers or any other equipment in the boat. Most people will be going out with the boats loaded down heavier than tested. 1/3 tank of gas gives you about a 30 mile max range. I'd want a little more margin than that.

 

[jkust]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

Well, I decided to pass on the Four Winns and bought a same year Chaparral 183ss. It is a one owner with 50 hours on it but it only has the 190 hp Mercruiser. It is by a mile the nicest used boat I have looked at including all the used 2007's and even the showroom 2008 Glastrons. Even they had some scuffs and gelcoat scratches. I get it on Friday and can't wait to get out on the water.

Thanks everyone for your input. It was tough to pass up the Four Winns but 55 versus 250 hours made it an easier decision even though I had to pass up the EFI. Let's hope my Oldsmobile Silhouette can tow it.

-Jason

 

[bandit86]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

I looked at a 30ft searay with twin 5.0 inboards. beautiful seatrial, 50 hours on the new engine. the compression test showed both engines had 75psi in the 1, 2 and 7,8 cylinder and 125psi in the rest. couldn't figure out why, but at 50 hours I think it was very abused. pass

 

[ne7800]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

I think you'll find that the Four Winns is a heavier, "nicer" boat than the Stingray or Bayliner. Kind of like comparing a Cadillac and a Chevy with the same engine. If speed is an important factor you probably shouldn't be looking at 4 cylinders or V6's.

not actualy that good of a comparison anyone rember the Cadillac Cimarron it was a cavilier with caddilac badging lol what was chevy thinking

 

[mcleaves]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

Do not let miniscule published performance differences throw you from the volvo. They are the toyota-lexus of the outdrives.

Agreed.. All things equal in terms of price, I would never pass up a VP setup, especially over a few hours which are well within the band of normal usage.

Also I am a poster boy for the problems of buying a low hours boat. EVERYTHING needed replacing in short order for lack of use. In my case it was a cruiser with freshwater/waste, head, mutliple bilge pumps etc. But it ALL needed replacing after a year or two. Failures were directly tied lack of use.

I suspect on a newer low hour boat it's not so much of an issue. But people do get taken by the low miles/low hours carrot

M

 

[jkust]

Re: Is this too many hours on a boat to consider buying?

Well, I am confident the owner took good care of it. When I met the owner at his office I discovered he is the president of one of the largest banks in the US. This was his foray into boating and he just did not have the time to use the boat. I wondered how he had such a big home where I looked at the boat. He did not neglect the boat and had all appropriate maintenance done with records. That is a stark difference from some of the units I looked at. Some of those owners did not follow the maintenance schedule or just ignored it. In one case, a two year old Sea Ray I looked at was in unbelievably bad shape. Like you would purposfully have to beat it up to get it in that bad of shape. I also realized that so many folks have loans out on their newer boats that they really can't negotiate much at all.